I was also impressed by the couple whose husband took her name, as opposed
to the
traditional way of the wife taking her husband's name. I wonder what
people's reactions
to that were, and would they share that information with us.

This happens in Sweden, where the default now is that both parties keep
their family names and that children receive that of their mother. If you
want some other arrangement, you have to tell the registration authorities,
and that goes for a woman taking the man's name as well as the other way
round.

TWolf


Dear Laura,

yes I do stand up to evil when necessary, and I have been to hospital
because of it; but I won, dammit. Also, my wish to be ready to stand
up to evil if necessary---in this case a very specific evil, to be sure---
was the reason why I, like some 90.000 other male and some female
Swedish citizens, for twelve years kept a fully automatic assault rifle
and ammo in my home, with the rest of my combar gear. Also, why
I sacrificed much of my free time and endured quite a lot of discomfort.
It was simply worth doing.

And, no, there's not a lot of shooting in the streets, really. People who
show signs of incipient or full-blown Ramboism or Schwarzeneggerosis
are quitly told to go play marbles somewhere else. We know that in
a 'live-ammo' situation, they would be pretty useless anyway.

Dear Coyote,

your posting moved me deeply. Enough said. You come over as a
decent, thinking and feeling bloke, which I deeply appreciate. (And
I agree, he's articulate too!) I am glad that you have been able to
carve out a life for yourself nevertheless, and if you also have won
peace of a kind, well, then may the Power be with you.

TWolf


the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 20:06:48 +0100
From: timberwolf@bahnhof.se
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Cutting off balls and all that
Message-Id: <199605301803.UAA01844@sunny.bahnhof.se
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Friends,

It seems that rape has very little to do with sex. The rapist wants power;
power to bolster his own self-image (for he is at heart convinced that he
is weak and endangered, and he is right) and power in order to exact
service and keep others in slavery. For this, he uses his penis as a weapon.
This is satisfying to him, not because he comes, but because this is a
specifically *male* weapon, and he can of course assert superiority only
by pointing to something he has done nothing to deserve---like being
male, or white, or born into this or that ethnic group---because he has
never *don*e anything to deserve respect, let alone power. He knows that
winning genuine respect is beyond him.

And it usually has little to do with anger either. It is mostly done in cold
blood.

So take that weapon away---OK, he will miss it, but there are other
weapons available---like guns, knives, broken bottles etc etc. What are
you going to do, cut off his hands too? Or his head?

Yes, David and Catherine, even common criminals despise and hate
rapists, woman-beaters and child molesters. Just lock them up.

Also, the risk of miscarriages of justice is very real. We had a case a
couple of years ago in a coastal village in Norway, where there was an
outbreak of real witch hysteria, the entire staff of a day-care center
being accused of being child-molesters. Finally, it transpired that the
whole thing had been whipped up by psychoterapeuts using suggestion,
leading questions etc on children, exactly as happened during the
17th C witchhunts (we had some in Sweden too; they are extremely well
documented so we can se what happend, but finally common sense
prevailed and the thing was stamped out). I think that psychoterapeuts
should be locked up---they are dangerous to people's lives!

TWolf


the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 19:35:11 +0000
From: Christine & David Stevenson
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Castration
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960530193511.006a35ec@mail.telepac.pt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 23:52 29/05/96 -0700, Jet wrote:

How about a 'scarlett' L tattooed on their foreheads? ; )

Excuse my ignorance, but why 'L' and why scarlett.

David Stevenson.

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 19:35:27 +0000
From: Christine & David Stevenson
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: The Rape / Castration / Firearms Capillary
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960530193527.006b3520@mail.telepac.pt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 07:37 30/05/96 -0700, Laura wrote some very positive words of
encouragement for the good guys and:

I just wish the good guys would thump some serious Neanderthal butt!
That's what your extra male strength and vigor is for!
That's my only complaint with the good guys...they are too complacent.

The trouble is Non-Neanderthal types are not into butt-kicking or thunping.

How do you breed a race of men selectively so that they have the desire to
go around kicking butt, but only the right butts?

Perhaps by only giving sexual privileges to those men that do? In the end
genetics would take care of it, but it would need women to be empowered first.

A bit of a chicken and egg situation.

I am a coward. This is something I have recognised about myself since I was
bullied at school. It is also something I had to overcome a couple of times
to put a stop to the bullying. But schools and mothers and fathers teach (or
taught when I was young) boys to stand up and fight.

But nevertheless I am a passive butt-kicker. Because I'm a coward, or
Non-Neanderthal I only kick-butt when my back (or that of a loved one) is
against the wall.

Like yer cock-privileges do ya? You didn't earn 'em, you won't fight
*for* them, you don't deserve 'em! Did
you see the enemy and run, like a coward?

I'm not sure what is meant here. Obviously not that we should be aggressive
and fight for sex. But what positive suggestion is being made?

David Stevenson.

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 22:56:48 +0200
From: Bernd
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Does it Matter?
Message-Id: <199605302056.WAA22389@croco.atnet.at
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I, for one, don't think it really matters, as long as the topics are
informative
and interesting and work towards women being empowered/powerful. There
are men out there that wish they were women for many reasons,
and if there is a man on this group that feels strongly enough about
wanting
to be a women (transgender, etc.), and wants to write as a women, then
let's

not downgrade that person for it. Women do have a lot of power: we bear
children, we bear pain and cold easier, we are stronger emotionally and
can

communicate better... We have much that men envy and for someone to ask
if a person is 'really a woman' has little to do with that.

I exclusively date men that are very feminine and wish that they were
women...
they are sweet, submissive, and believe that they should have been born
women. They envy the power that we have, the abilities that we have, the
bodies that we have.

Isn't it enough that we have this wonderful support system here, where we
are trying to empower a group that has been disempowered traditionally
for
many years, that we should try to disempower someone who may or may not
be a woman, but may wish it to be so. I'm not saying anyone is a man or
woman, just that we should not assume that because someone 'appears' to
be a man writing as a woman, that this is so. Or vice versa. I hope
that
we can all empower one another and come from a position of power and
strength in knowing that women are powerful and we cannot afford to
alienate anyone who has that same belief and is willing to support that
belief.

Okay--I'm off my soapbox now... ; )

Jet

I want to thank you for that comment, Jet.
and I will take your comment to ask you and of course every other Wo-Man on
this list a little question:
A few weeks ago I read an article about dressing (young) boys in skirts.
The author sees this as an educational thing to teach them appreciance of
feminity.
Although I somehow loved this idea I suddenly wasnt sure wether this really
is right or wrong.The article was more written from her side, how lovely
the boys look and so on.
I do not have kids so I cannot say if I really would do that.
What do you think about this?
I am sure the boys look nice but how do they feel?
I grew up in a very feminine environment but I never was FORCED to wear
skirts. I did it by my own and enjoyed it as a game, as an excitement.

Bernd

the subject "help".

--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #81
***********************************************

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------------------------------

Content-Type: text/plain

femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 82

Today's Topics:
Re: Gender/Languages
Re: Hilary-a second child
Re: Does it Matter? (was Let Clear Some Stuff Up)
Re: Does it Matter?
Re: How to treat criminals (Re: castration)
Re: Cutting off balls and all that
Re: How to treat criminals (Re: castration)
Re: How to treat criminals (Re: castration)
Psychotherapists and sexual abuse.
Knowing a date rapist when you see one.
How about this idea?
Apology to Patricia.
Re: The Rape / Castration / Firearms Capillary
Re: The Rape / Castration / Firearms Capillary
Re: Apology to Patricia.
Re: How to treat criminals (Re: castration)
Re: The Only Safe Home for a WOMEN is a HOME SHE Rules.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 22:56:45 +0200
From: Bernd
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Gender/Languages
Message-Id: <199605302056.WAA22387@croco.atnet.at
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hello Jet

That maybe allows people to think a little more about their environment,
old cultures and history and the fact that there are at least two
genders
on this planet.

I agree with this. People go through life in a mindless muddle, never
really
thinking about the words they use, much less if there are two (or
more--let's
not forget the hermaphrodites or transgenders) genders. If more people
were mindful, I don't think these issues would be understood in the same
way. What do you think?

Yes, knowing about things changes the behavior. Think about, it talk about
it.Many people do not think about their environment, they just live because
they live. I can understand
this. Doubting, re-asking your believes is a hard thing.It mostly causes
you, like written in your signature, to really change your environment, to
loose friends and so on. To be open means that you are vulnerable and if
you are, you will be hurted some day in some way. People ,generally dont
like this. As long as women were quiet for example, there was no need to
think about this. World just happened.War jaust happened.
But fortunatly women are very intellegent and since allowed to talk, think
and learn, new aspects about society arose and many people now KNOW that
there is more behind feminity than just submissiveness and weakness.
This should and will find an expression in our languages and cultures.
And for me personally womens liberation brought me a new, more colored view
about creation and god(dess),society and Womankind.

But of course on the other hand WoMankind is a very complex thing, there
is

no strict border between women and men, they are somehow different but
somehow they arent.

Except that WoMankind is superior... : P

Yes dear Jet, womankind is suprior,feminity is suprior and hopefully we are
a growing group of knowing people who decide not to ignore this. Since
almost ten years I am aware of womens liberation and loved to follow their
views and oppinions. And it is great to see that on this list more and more
women write and think.



Using neutral terms make people to objects, it reduces them to their
function, what maybe is good in the case of politicans and most other
public positions.

Yes, I would also agree with that and women in particular, have been used
and seen as objects for far too long.

But it is also beautiful to see and enjoy the differences.

If the differences were not there, there would not be the problems...we'd
all be one gender and that would be BORING, no?

A year ago or two a very short message run through the papers: Somewhere
in

Switzerland in a little town or village their government decided to only
use the feminine terms for their politicans.It was accepted by the
(male)
majority and so this town or village suddenly became a womens town. :)
I have never heard anything about this since then and I dont know what
town

it was, or if it true. So maybe some of our european people on this list
know anything about this?????????
An interesting experience, isnt it?

I think this is very interesting! I would also like to know if anyone of
you has
more information on this. It seems so Amazonian, especially in Europe.


Yes it is an exciting idea to turn it upside down, even if it is just a
mindgame or an experiment ..I like it. :=)




the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 18:08:16 -0400
From: Andrew
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Hilary-a second child
Message-ID: <31AE1C50.7873@packet.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Jet wrote:
What a wonderful gimmick for Bill to get re-elected!

Q.: What do you get when you cross a crooked lawyer with a crooked politician?
A.: Chelsea

andrew

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 18:14:32 -0400
From: Andrew
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Does it Matter? (was Let Clear Some Stuff Up)
Message-ID: <31AE1DC8.435C@packet.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

bodie167@houston.email.net wrote:

On whether Tracey is "really a woman," or not, I agree: What matters?
And also, why doesn't anyone ever ask if Magnus, or Andrew, . . or I, am
really a WOMAN? Ever think of that?
bodie


I am only a Woman to the extent that my Mistress dresses me as one. And to the
extent that She permits me the honor of doing "wmoan's work" in Her home.
Otherwise, I am, humbly but unavoidably, male. But thanks for asking.

andrew

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 18:16:21 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Does it Matter?
Message-ID: <31AE4865.FD6@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

To a Scottish woman like myself there is nothing more sexy than a man in
a kilt..blowing in a bag and making music. No slouches them scottish
men.
Patricia


Bernd wrote:

I, for one, don't think it really matters, as long as the topics are
informative
and interesting and work towards women being empowered/powerful. There
are men out there that wish they were women for many reasons,
and if there is a man on this group that feels strongly enough about
wanting
to be a women (transgender, etc.), and wants to write as a women, then
let's

not downgrade that person for it. Women do have a lot of power: we bear
children, we bear pain and cold easier, we are stronger emotionally and
can

communicate better... We have much that men envy and for someone to ask
if a person is 'really a woman' has little to do with that.

I exclusively date men that are very feminine and wish that they were
women...
they are sweet, submissive, and believe that they should have been born
women. They envy the power that we have, the abilities that we have, the
bodies that we have.

Isn't it enough that we have this wonderful support system here, where we
are trying to empower a group that has been disempowered traditionally
for
many years, that we should try to disempower someone who may or may not
be a woman, but may wish it to be so. I'm not saying anyone is a man or
woman, just that we should not assume that because someone 'appears' to
be a man writing as a woman, that this is so. Or vice versa. I hope
that
we can all empower one another and come from a position of power and
strength in knowing that women are powerful and we cannot afford to
alienate anyone who has that same belief and is willing to support that
belief.

Okay--I'm off my soapbox now... ; )

Jet

I want to thank you for that comment, Jet.
and I will take your comment to ask you and of course every other Wo-Man on
this list a little question:
A few weeks ago I read an article about dressing (young) boys in skirts.
The author sees this as an educational thing to teach them appreciance of
feminity.
Although I somehow loved this idea I suddenly wasnt sure wether this really
is right or wrong.The article was more written from her side, how lovely
the boys look and so on.
I do not have kids so I cannot say if I really would do that.
What do you think about this?
I am sure the boys look nice but how do they feel?
I grew up in a very feminine environment but I never was FORCED to wear
skirts. I did it by my own and enjoyed it as a game, as an excitement.

Bernd

___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 00:01:05 +0000
From: Christine & David Stevenson
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: How to treat criminals (Re: castration)
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960531000105.006767d8@mail.telepac.pt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 13:48 30/05/96 -0500, Peter wrote:

Rather than offer theories, I'll post a question. Should society look at
ways of making the conditions under which these men exist, more of the
living hell they already face?

I would say not. Society would better spend it's time trying to find ways to
avoid such crimes happening in the first place.

Despite being into cruel punishment for male disobedience to women, I've
never really thought that punishment should be cruel. I'm not even sure
punishment should exist at all for Women, Men or Children.

Rather some way to (re-)educate the ignorant, deter the weak willed,
and treat the sick.

I rather think that apart from date-rape, the rapists we've been discussing
fall into the latter category, the sick.

David Stevenson.



the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 00:01:08 +0000
From: Christine & David Stevenson
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Cutting off balls and all that
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960531000108.00670810@mail.telepac.pt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 20:06 30/05/96 +0100, Twolf wrote:

Yes, David and Catherine.

Apart from the fact that Christine's name isn't Catherine I find myself in
complete agreement with Twolf and I feel his analysis of the rapists
motivation rings true.

There have been similar cases of such 'anti-black magic' media hullabaloo in
England. From afar here in Portugal it seems that they too were whipped up
out of thin air by (well meaning) social workers.

David Stevenson.

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 16:11:03 -0700
From: jet@nwlink.com (Jet)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: How to treat criminals (Re: castration)
Message-Id: <199605302311.QAA19607@montana.nwlink.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I'm sure a
great number have undiagnosed/untreated medical conditions which effect
their judgement, some of which are genetic, some of which might be
blamed on the toxic assault of our polluted environment, some which are
acquired through injury (blow to the head) or disease, or addiction
(example: alcoholism kills brain cells).

This could be very true...A male friend of mine in Leavenworth, WA, was a
kind and gentle man until he was struck by lightening. After that, every
little thing disturbed him and he had become another person: violent,
short-tempered, unable to control even the littlest frustration from
becoming a major issue, started drinking heavily and abusing drugs...
like I said, he became a totally different person.

Alcohol and drugs are a bit different. They make people less inhibited
(along with destroying brain cells), so maybe they are more able to
abuse when under the influence because of that. How many times have
we heard people say that when someone is drinking they are abusive
and obnoxious--a mean drunk, I think the term is. While others became
very passive when drunk.

Some aggressive behaviors, certainly a certain degree of aggression, is
hormone controlled. Castration might be a humane solution for some. I
would red-flag cases where the male became noticeably more violent
(beyond normal, healthy aggression) at the onset of puberty. If it's a
life-long problem, or arose later in life, another solution might be
better.

You mean like Testosterone poisoning? I agree, that we must look
at someone's whole life before we can come to any real conclusions.

EVERY WOMAN'S HOUSE SHOULD BE A SAFE HOUSE. <--I want the
bumpersticker.

If you get any made, let me know...I'll buy at least 2...one for me and
one for a friend.

Society begins at home, and also goes there at the end of the day. the
personal is political, the political is personal...one reflects the
other. I will have no distorted, fun-house mirror at my house where
men can see themselves reflected at twice their natural size... and I
don't need to see myself that way either (although it is amusing and
educational to know what that's like).

Laura, I agree with you. That's why I'm raising my daughter in the
way that I am. Empowered and strong, healthy and happy, compassionate
and evironmentally conscious, intelligent and a lot of common sense.
I hope it 'takes.' ; )

Jet

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
That's the risk you take if you change: that the people you've
been involved with won't like the new you. But other people
who do will come along. --Lisa Alther

Jet Tenley P.O. Box 25171
jet@nwlink.com Seattle, WA 98125-2071
Phone: (206)527-0492 FAX: (206)517-3038

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 19:03:50 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: How to treat criminals (Re: castration)
Message-ID: <31AE5386.57A0@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Date rapers are worse...they not only make you feel vulnerable on the
streets and at home...they make you question your own instincts...women
ask..why did I not know he was a rapist.
patricia


Christine & David Stevenson wrote:

At 13:48 30/05/96 -0500, Peter wrote:

Rather than offer theories, I'll post a question. Should society look at
ways of making the conditions under which these men exist, more of the
living hell they already face?

I would say not. Society would better spend it's time trying to find ways to
avoid such crimes happening in the first place.

Despite being into cruel punishment for male disobedience to women, I've
never really thought that punishment should be cruel. I'm not even sure
punishment should exist at all for Women, Men or Children.

Rather some way to (re-)educate the ignorant, deter the weak willed,
and treat the sick.

I rather think that apart from date-rape, the rapists we've been discussing
fall into the latter category, the sick.

David Stevenson.

___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 May 96 01:52:54 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Psychotherapists and sexual abuse.
Message-Id: <199605302351.BAA20579@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On Thu, 30 May 1996 20:06:48 +0100, timberwolf@bahnhof.se wrote:

being accused of being child-molesters. Finally, it transpired that the
whole thing had been whipped up by psychoterapeuts using suggestion,
leading questions etc on children, exactly as happened during the
17th C witchhunts (we had some in Sweden too; they are extremely well
documented so we can se what happend, but finally common sense
prevailed and the thing was stamped out). I think that psychoterapeuts
should be locked up---they are dangerous to people's lives!

They have a lot of power, and some obviously don't exercise that power
very well.

---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden


the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 May 96 02:07:41 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "Fem. suprem."
Subject: Knowing a date rapist when you see one.
Message-Id: <199605310006.CAA22151@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

It wouldn't surprise me if there are signs to look for. Kind of like
the FBI has profiles of serial killers, where some traits are common to
many of them. I won't pretend to know anything about what to look for
though.

---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden


the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 12:04:29 +1200
From: Oliver Stone
To: femsupremacy-digest@renaissoft.com (Non Receipt Notification Requested)
Subject: How about this idea?
Message-ID: <7023041231051996/A01979/DALEK/11A5FB041700*@MHS
Content-Identifier: 11A5FB041700

Why should MAN be a term for "Male"?

Why can't it mean unisex?

See, then we could have woMAN, heMAN (for male) and all the words that are
associated with MAN would then make sense and women wouldn't still have that
dominated feeling.

Personally I hate the Adam and Eve story. When woman was created it was in
such a subservient way. Have any of you heard of Lilith? Apparently she was
the woman before Eve. Lilith was made the same way as Adam, with dirt and
dust. And she wanted equal rights with Adam. Lilith also refused to use the
missionary position claiming that she also had the right to be on top. Adam
seeked God's help to tame Lilith and to make her bow to him. When Lilith heard
this she fled Eden and formed her own band of followers. And so-called "evil"
was born. Stories were spread about Lilith about how she consumes newborns and
spawned demons. And all because she wanted equality. And Adam got to make his
own woman from his rib so he would be her "ruler". Crikey, I hate that part.

In Maori folklore, female entities are equal to their male counterparts. The
earth being female (Papa) and the sky being male (Rangi). And the first mortal
was a woman, made from gifts given by Papa and Rangi. My tribal affliations
are also both male and female. Women are treated with respect and are just as
likely to become chiefs of their tribes. Women were even able to fight with
the men in combat if they chose.

Do you think this male dominance thing comes from a culture? It's a can of
worms, I know, but if Maori ruled the world, it would be a world of gender
equality.

Tracey

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 May 96 02:09:45 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "Fem. suprem."
Subject: Apology to Patricia.
Message-Id: <199605310008.CAA22401@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I would like to apologize to you in public for 'getting on your case'.
That was never my intention, and looking back I can see that I should've
trodden a more lightly. Once again, I'm sorry.

---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden


the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 17:24:48 -0700
From: jet@nwlink.com (Jet)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: The Rape / Castration / Firearms Capillary
Message-Id: <199605310024.RAA28417@montana.nwlink.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Patricia--

Maybe that the difference between women having guns and men having guns.
Men seem to see the gun as the object of wonder, they almost worship
them.

Could this because it's a phallic symbol?

Women see the gun as an object of utility, to be put up with, if
they want to live another day to see the sunset which is to them an
object of wonder.

An object that provides safety and security...

Women make homes...I mean not just in houses but everywhere they go.
you see a woman bring flowers for her desk and the whole office lights
up. She wears a power suit with a silk camisile underneath. We who are
in political life would like to make the world a home where everyones
children were safe, there was food and shelter and medical for everyone.

This is wonderful and I think very true.

If I had my druthers I would opt for a world where women and children
could dance naked in the streets at any hour of the day or night and no
harm would ever come to them from any man. But until we get there...I
will live.

I agree with this also. I will not let the violence and fear win...

Jet

PS: I really enjoy your posts, Patricia.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
That's the risk you take if you change: that the people you've
been involved with won't like the new you. But other people
who do will come along. --Lisa Alther

Jet Tenley P.O. Box 25171
jet@nwlink.com Seattle, WA 98125-2071
Phone: (206)527-0492 FAX: (206)517-3038

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 20:23:25 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: The Rape / Castration / Firearms Capillary
Message-ID: <31AE662D.1CD7@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I really enjoy yours too, Jet
Patricia
Jet

PS: I really enjoy your posts, Patricia.

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 20:21:57 -0700
From: Noble
To:
CC: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Apology to Patricia.
Message-ID: <31AE65D5.6AA3@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Apology accepted..
Patricia

Magnus Thelander wrote:

I would like to apologize to you in public for 'getting on your case'.
That was never my intention, and looking back I can see that I should've
trodden a more lightly. Once again, I'm sorry.

---



___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".


the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 20:38:11 -0500
From: kriv@interlog.com (peter)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: How to treat criminals (Re: castration)
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 13:48 30/05/96 -0500, Peter wrote:

Rather than offer theories, I'll post a question. Should society look at
ways of making the conditions under which these men exist, more of the
living hell they already face?

I would say not. Society would better spend it's time trying to find ways to
avoid such crimes happening in the first place.

We all agree on that? But will that happen in our lifetime. And, until that
happens ...?


the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 18:05:41 -0700
From: edjo@sprynet.com
To: femsupremacy-digest@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: The Only Safe Home for a WOMEN is a HOME SHE Rules.
Message-Id: <199605310105.SAA13569@m3.sprynet.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On Wed, 29 May 1996 23:26:28 -0700, Noble wrote:

The only safe home for a woman is a home she RULES!
where all men know there place and respect, adore and honor her rule.

In a home you ruled, would the men be allowed to express their
opinions, or would you expect them to limit their vocabulary to 'yes'?

Note: This is *no* criticism. If this is the way you want it, it's your
prerogative. I'm just curious.

---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden

In my Leaders home She rules and i know were my place is. i don't work
and my duties are doing all the housework,cooking,shopping,laundry,preparing all
meals,and any home repairs or yardwork that needs to be done.She has a duties
list of things for me to preform,any back talk and all HELL breaks loose.
We have been together for eleven years and i let her win all battles,after
all She is fourteen years older than me and bigger and stronger i think. Time
To start supper.
eddie

My Leader will probley write later




<---- End Forwarded Message ----


<---- End Forwarded Message ----

<---- End Forwarded Message ----

--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #82
***********************************************

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------------------------------

Content-Type: text/plain

femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 83

Today's Topics:
Re: How to treat criminals (Re: castration)
Re: Bit o' news
scarlett L
apology for repeated messages
Prisoners rights.
barn boss
Until that happens.
Sexual frustration / Anger
Re: castration
Re: castration
unsuscribe
Re: Castration
Re: Bit o' news
Slapping down Andrew< was Re: Carrying firearms.]
Re: The Rape / Castration / Firearms Capillary
Living with ADD
Re: castration

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 19:08:41 -0700
From: jet@nwlink.com (Jet)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: How to treat criminals (Re: castration)
Message-Id: <199605310208.TAA11145@montana.nwlink.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

What I'm getting at is perhaps we should first bear in mind what most of
these men do suffer after they've been convicted.

I'm sorry if I sound callous, but what goes around, comes around. What
terrible things he did to those women... ;`( I have no sympathy nor
empathy for this type of person, either. What a heartless way to
treat two human beings!

Rather than offer theories, I'll post a question. Should society look at
ways of making the conditions under which these men exist, more of the
living hell they already face?

My way of looking at criminals is this: They had no consideration for
the people they committed the crimes against, I don't believe that we
should show consideration for them once they have been found guilty
of those crimes. Should we give criminals all the same rights that we have
out here, inside prison? I thought prison was a place without rights
for people who violated others' rights.

By the way, Bernardo's wife, who was actively involved in his crimes, was
given 12 years because she testified against him. She is eligible for day
parole as early as next year.

Does anyone ever wonder what she will do once she is released, if they
parole her? Will she go out and do more of the same, or is she really
rehabilitated? Will she go out and find another man with the same
tendencies as her husband and go out on another 'spree?'

The question posed here does make a person dig deep within herself/
himself to try to find the answer. Is there an answer?

Jet

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
That's the risk you take if you change: that the people you've
been involved with won't like the new you. But other people
who do will come along. --Lisa Alther

Jet Tenley P.O. Box 25171
jet@nwlink.com Seattle, WA 98125-2071
Phone: (206)527-0492 FAX: (206)517-3038

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 18:42:53 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Bit o' news
Message-Id: <199605310142.SAA17862@dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com

Michael wrote:

I too have been experiencing the same sort of symptoms. What sort of
treatment is available? (I also have a slight case of hypertension.)

I advise you to check out the alt.support.attn-deficit NG. Also there
is a great book, *Driven to Distraction* By Dr. Hallowell.

I had a scare tonight...the meds I'm trying caused a terrifying side
effect...stong heart palpitations, dizziness...when my left arm went
numb my hubby rushed me to the ER, lest I be having a heart attack. I
have to change meds, for sure. :( I was taking Cylert, but now I'll
try something else.
--
Laura Goodwin

" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."

(William Shakespeare)

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 03:35:24 +0000
From: Christine & David Stevenson
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: scarlett L
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960531033524.00665560@mail.telepac.pt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 23:52 29/05/96 -0700, Jet wrote:

How about a 'scarlett' L tattooed on their foreheads? ; )

Excuse my ignorance, but why 'L' and why scarlett.

David Stevenson.

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 03:41:01 +0000
From: Christine & David Stevenson
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: apology for repeated messages
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960531034101.00675728@mail.telepac.pt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I sent a bunch of messages earlier in the day, and when they didn't bounce
back into my in tray in the normal way I repeated them all thinking they had
got lost somewhere. As the repeats were going out moments ago I saw the
first of my messages coming back.

Sorry If your in trays are cluttered!

David Stevenson.

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 04:00:46 +0000
From: Christine & David Stevenson
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Prisoners rights.
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960531040046.00673b80@mail.telepac.pt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 19:08 30/05/96 -0700, Jet wrote:

My way of looking at criminals is this: They had no consideration for
the people they committed the crimes against, I don't believe that we
should show consideration for them once they have been found guilty
of those crimes. Should we give criminals all the same rights that we have
out here, inside prison? I thought prison was a place without rights
for people who violated others' rights.

I think prisoners should have rights too.

Someone once said that you can judge a society by the way it treats it's
prisoners.

I think we should show consideration for everyone. It is sometimes hard to
be considerate towards the inconsiderate, but we must lead by example.

Clearly prisoners should not have the same rights. But excrement in their
food for example is a breach of standards which is unacceptable, whatever
the crime.

JustMHO

David Stevenson.

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 03:35:35 +0000
From: Christine & David Stevenson
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: barn boss
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960531033535.0067eac4@mail.telepac.pt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 22:02 29/05/96 -0700, morte@interlog.com wrote:

D'you mean the barn boss?

Perhaps. I don't know what a barn boss is? Excuse my ignorance. King-pin was
my own phrase used to express a long distant, but realtively fresh memory.

David Stevenson.

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 03:35:29 +0000
From: Christine & David Stevenson
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Until that happens.
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960531033529.00674580@mail.telepac.pt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 20:38 30/05/96 -0500, Peter wrote:

We all agree on that? But will that happen in our lifetime. And, until that
happens ...?

Encourage everyone to read 'Families and How to Survive them' by John Cleese
and his analyst as a first step in beginning to understand all the
influences that went to make you who you are. (By the way the book is
negative about Kinkiness, but I'm big enough to know they are wrong on that
score without dismissing the whole book).

David Stevenson.

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 03:35:21 +0000
From: Christine & David Stevenson
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Sexual frustration / Anger
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960531033521.0067e4f8@mail.telepac.pt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 23:41 29/05/96 -0700, Jet wrote:

I don't think of it as cruel or unusual. As for the crime and why
they do it, I don't think castration would work because rape is an act of
anger, to hurt and humiliate women. It would not cure the anger
problem or explain why they do this vile thing. Of course, no one wants
to have a child conceived from an act of rape, so castration would stop
that. It would make men more docile, but what about the anger that
caused the behavior in the first place?

I've heard the anger and not sexual desire theory before. But I have to
admit that I wonder how true it is.

Would it be more true to suggest that the anger stems from unfulfilled
desire. Plain sexual frustration boiled over into a need to hurt the persons
they feel are responsible for this unhappy state? (not that I'm saying women
are responsible for it, just that these men unreasonably feel this to be the
case).

Are there any figures on the co-relation between the liberalisation of
society and the legalisation of pornography and/or prostitution and a
subsequent reduction in sex crimes?

I seem to remember unsubstantiated stories back in the sixties and seventies
that in Sweden such liberalisation resulted in a drop in such crimes?

I think I could say with regard to the possibility of being a rapist. 'There
but for the grace of Goddess go I'.

I hope I'm not going to be wildly misunderstood here.

I think I hinted at this issue in our first introductory posting. I have
written at greater length on the subject but I'll try and briefly summarise.

I choose to believe, (quite wrongly of course) that women are
'prickteasers'. I therefore can blame them for my constantly rampant and
randy state. Rather than going out and raping them, I turn myself into a
wimp and submit to them. Placing myself at their mercy. Of course I can do
this because I am capable of seeing that my beliefs are my own invention for
my own sexual fantasies to work. But the true rapist is perhaps not as
capable of self analysis and understanding.

Dennis the elder suggested that such self analysis was not necessary. I
simply advocate that it helps to understand the human condition, and other men.

It is how we use the results of such analysis that could make the difference.

In the meantime I agree with Dennis. Enjoy it as well!

David Stevenson.

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 22:36:39 -0500 (CDT)
From: Ronald Forster
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
cc: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: castration
Message-ID:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

This is not intended as a flame but for my records -- do you have a
source for "a woman is raped every 16 seconds here in America"?

Thanks

Forster

On Wed, 29 May 1996, Noble wrote:

o.k. we are trying to be so equal here...the fact of the matter is a
woman is raped every 16 seconds here in america. now let me see men
stories get all the press and we want to make them equal in this...it is
about one man is raped..about every 2 years in america...hardly think
there is the same amount of emergency here.
patricia

same thing to men. What they are doing is
picking up men in lounges, etc., getting them aroused and ready for
anything, then raping them with dildos, or whatever, in a way to express
their anger for having been raped by a man. I do not condone this in

I would think that this would get *them* into trouble with police?

---



___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".


___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".



the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 23:39:58 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: castration
Message-ID: <31AE943E.1DC1@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

F.B.I Crime Statistics...
Patricia


Ronald Forster wrote:

This is not intended as a flame but for my records -- do you have a
source for "a woman is raped every 16 seconds here in America"?

Thanks

Forster

On Wed, 29 May 1996, Noble wrote:

o.k. we are trying to be so equal here...the fact of the matter is a
woman is raped every 16 seconds here in america. now let me see men
stories get all the press and we want to make them equal in this...it is
about one man is raped..about every 2 years in america...hardly think
there is the same amount of emergency here.
patricia

same thing to men. What they are doing is
picking up men in lounges, etc., getting them aroused and ready for
anything, then raping them with dildos, or whatever, in a way to express
their anger for having been raped by a man. I do not condone this in

I would think that this would get *them* into trouble with police?

---



___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".


___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".



___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 00:17:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tasha@shadow.net (Tasha Star)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: unsuscribe
Message-Id: <199605310417.AAA13279@anshar.shadow.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Not quitting, just changing it to a diff account.
The mail program on this account can't handle the current traffic on this list.

I'll continue to read, and I'll save poor old Eudora from crashing.

Tasha
^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^
~Tasha Star~ Tasha@shadow.net
** New GIFs on my website **
!! Take a second look, it's changed !!
http://www.shadow.net/~tasha
^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^
Ethereal Dominance
18524 N.W. 67 Avenue Suite# 325
Miami, FL. 33015 **number change**
After hours of begging, Southern Bell talked me into
yet ANOTHER phone line, (that makes 5)
Starting tuesday, May 28, the new contact
number will be *******305-819-8111*******
Please update your records.
^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^"^

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 00:05:40 -0700
From: White Holes
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Castration
Message-ID: <31AE9A44.22F6@interlog.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Christine & David Stevenson & Alfed Jarry wrote:

At 23:41 29/05/96 -0700, Jet wrote:

I don't think of it as cruel or unusual. As for the crime and why
they do it, I don't think castration would work because rape is an act of
anger, to hurt and humiliate women. It would not cure the anger
problem or explain why they do this vile thing. Of course, no one wants
to have a child conceived from an act of rape, so castration would stop
that. It would make men more docile, but what about the anger that
caused the behavior in the first place?

I've heard the anger and not sexual desire theory before. But I have to
admit that I wonder how true it is.

Would it be more true to suggest that the anger stems from unfulfilled
desire. Plain sexual frustration boiled over into a need to hurt the persons
they feel are responsible for this unhappy state? (not that I'm saying women
are responsible for it, just that they unreasonably feel this to be the case).

You mean the repressive-oppressive model.

The dissolution of the universal generative Referent that grounds her
life to the phallocentric hierarchy, Desire is not bolstered by needs,
but rather the contrary; they are counterproducts within the real she
produces.

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 00:31:45 -0400
From: Lonely2001@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Bit o' news
Message-ID: <960531003145_124506291@emout07.mail.aol.com

In a message dated 96-05-30 13:09:07 EDT, you write:

I *do* talk too fast: people have complained to me about that a lot.
It's even too fast for me sometimes, which is why I sometimes ststutter
(the rereal rereason for the lalaura nick, BTW). :)



I used to stutter too, cause my brain seems to get ahead of my mouth and I
talk too fast to try and keep up. I don't stutter as bad as I used to
though... It's sorta rare now.

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 22:17:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Nina Elfman
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Slapping down Andrew< was Re: Carrying firearms.]
Message-ID:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I would like to remind the subbie guys on the list that their sexual
feelings are better expressed in a different forum. This entire sub-thread
where Andrew begins deluging us with his sexual fantasies of slavery to a
femdom seems inappropriate for the list as a whole judging from what I
have been reading since I subscribed. I haven't read the list's faq yet
so I may be in eror. But his comments do bother me. Perhaps only because
I feel like the addressee of his letter did, that he is trying to force
something in my face that I did not ask for and do not welcome. On the
other hand I wouldn't mind reading a nicely worded imaginativly written
fantasy from the domme or sub perspective. I would feel that something
like that was "offered" for my entertainment rather than forced upon me
as was this blatant------
"notice me love me take me under your wing" plea(and his self-description
of it as "pitiful whimperings" is quite accurate_
since you recognize it as such andrew now you know to find another
way to express those feelings
. We are not telling you not to have those
feelings-just find a better less offensive way/different forum for
them)

. And if this *is* the only way Andrew knows how to express
himself Andrew would be well advised to seek a forum where
his writings would be better accepted such as: alt.sex.personals.(bondage
etc.)


Well, I'm wrong again. I insist and I request without permission.
I am a rapist,

then, for I am imposing myself, even in my pitiful whimperings for
acceptance as
the slave I yearn to be. I must learn to be less obtrusive. My deepest
apologies.

Silently in the corner, forehead to the floor,

andrew


the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 22:43:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: The Rape / Castration / Firearms Capillary
Message-Id: <199605310543.WAA20523@netcom2.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1061

I want to thank all of you who read, and the several of you
who took the time to make your very helpful posts on this thread.
I wasn't trying to lay my bad night on any of you, but certainly
needed the reality check(s), both public and private.

I may try to make some individual resposnes over the next
several days, but in the meantime will sum up with this:

Laura saw past my fears to write:

Aww, I think *somebody* needs a hug!

:::hugging coyote:::

|)
::: relaxing, feeling safe and happily accepting/returning hug :::

Peel me a grape, willya, coyote? ;)


--
coyote sings / man and sky / amfas@netcom.com

Show up. Lighten up. Pay attention. Feel awe. Make it count.
The rest is hidden.

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 23:54:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Living with ADD
Message-Id: <199605310654.XAA29616@netcom2.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 3356

ADD is not even a little bit funny until one has dealt with it.
About 3 years ago I began to be overwhelmed by 'distractions' that at
least mimicked ADD, enough to make me ask for help from my MD and the
ADD forum on Compuserve, which led me to the NG cited below.

I advise you to check out the alt.support.attn-deficit NG. Also there
is a great book, *Driven to Distraction* By Dr. Hallowell.

Laura continued:

I had a scare tonight...the meds I'm trying caused a terrifying side
effect...stong heart palpitations, dizziness...when my left arm went
numb my hubby rushed me to the ER, lest I be having a heart attack. I
have to change meds, for sure. :( I was taking Cylert, but now I'll
try something else.

+Please+ be careful out there with those meds!
When I first started looking around, Ritalin was the standard,
but it too can have really scary side-effects. Because of my
checkered past, I really have to stay committed to life without
any mood-altering stuff at all (except for thhe tea and cookies
you promised us).

So here's what I do now, and it seems to help- not cure, not
fix, but help. None of this is exactly rocket science, but a special
effort needs to be made all the same:

1. Take time out get quiet (meditation in my case, could be yoga
or similar). For me, about 20 to 40 minutes twice a day when I'm
being good,

2. Simplify my surroundings and stimuli, and do only one thing
at a time. Don't read when I eat, don't eat when I'm writing,
turn off the TV most of the time, don't read in bed. Kill clutter
(which I know sounds utopian, but try), kill input. TV generally
is bad, and so -sorry to say- is this medium. Cut back on time online
(said the pot to the kettle). Cut or consolidate unnecessary
commitments: keep the ones where you can really have some impact and
are good for the soul.

3. Get physical (combined with 1., above): Work out (without a
walkman or a video or aerobic music), just walk a lot, cook (if
you like cooking), and my fave: garden, work with plants. One
guy I know does needlepoint. Another lady knits. Mind-meld with
the cat, child, spouse, lover, etc., but don't overdo it.

There are other little tricks: drink tons of water, eat bananas
(potassium), etc that you can pick up to see if they work or not.

How cool for me -a single man living alone- that I can do all
these beautiful things. A woman with commitments, family,
involvement, etc may have more of a challenge. The nice thing-
the one really nice thing about ADD, some have told me- is
that the urgency of the diagnosis gives one =permission= to at
last get rid of some old baggage and lighten the load.

Save the world, yes, but only the parts you can touch.
Get quiet, shed some stuff, get physical and watch how much
more you get done. I think,,, ;]

And keep telling us about it, please
Have a care as you go,
--
coyote sings / man and sky / amfas@netcom.com

Show up. Lighten up. Pay attention. Feel awe. Make it count.
The rest is hidden.

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 00:09:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: dee@renaissoft.com (Dee-Ann LeBlanc)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: castration
Message-Id: <199605310709.AAA06297@davinci.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1236

Noble wrote:

o.k. we are trying to be so equal here...the fact of the matter is a
woman is raped every 16 seconds here in america. now let me see men
stories get all the press and we want to make them equal in this...it is
about one man is raped..about every 2 years in america...hardly think
there is the same amount of emergency here.

The problem is that the female rape victims who go out and rape men in
return are hurting themselves as well as the men. That kind of anger
isn't healthy, and consumes the soul. They're really continuing to
victimise themselves as they go out and victimise others. And, what
if the man they victimise was a wonderful guy, who had never hurt a
woman, etc.? What if she turns him into a misogynist?

This also comes back to the fact that just because one person was
victimised, that doesn't give them the right to turn around and
victimise someone else. That just continues the cycle of abuse.

Dee-Ann

the subject "help".

--------------------------------
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femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 84

Today's Topics:
Re: The Rape / Castration / Firearms Capillary
Re: How to change society
Re: Castration
How I got named
Re: The Rape / Castration / Firearms Capillary
Re: Slapping down Andrew< was Re: Carrying firearms.]
How to treat criminals (Re: castration)
Prisoners rights.
Re: How to treat criminals (Re: castration)
Re: Prisoners rights.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 00:28:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: dee@renaissoft.com (Dee-Ann LeBlanc)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: The Rape / Castration / Firearms Capillary
Message-Id: <199605310728.AAA06732@davinci.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Coyote Sings wrote:

How can women stand men? How can you have anything to with us?
How can you bear to look at us, let alone touch us?

I grew up in a fairly small city, as cities go. The more people I get
to know, the more I value how "boring" my youth was. I was not
physically abused. I was not emotionally abused. I was not sexually
abused. My parents supported me in whatever I wanted to do and be
(though my mother wouldn't let me have a pickup truck :), though maybe
my dad pushed a bit hard at times, being a believer in "tough love."

I didn't date in high school, partially because growing up in Florida
means growing up to an extent in a beach culture, where being able to
wear a bikini is more important than in other parts of the US. I
remember a friend trying to fix me up with a particular guy, his
apparant answer was, "Maybe if she'd lose some weight." I wasn't even
that horribly overweight, really. Though, to be honest, I've often
thought if my female friend who told me this had had more tact, she
wouldn't have told me. :)

However, all of my life I've had more male friends than female
friends. Though my mother didn't use the word "tomboy" for me, that's
in essence what I was. I didn't understand the southern belle
cotillion (dance and manners "club", not sure about the spelling)
thing, or easter dresses, or things like that. I also grew up in a
neighborhood where my two local female "friends" were rather cruel
people. So, all in all, I grew up trusting guys a bit more than
girls.

When I moved away to go to college in the northeast US, I managed to
find more women I could connect with, but still had a majority of male
friends. I guess I've just always had a way of finding the "nice
guys." However, my first relationship was certainly lacking, 3 years
of somewhat emotional abuse from someone who didn't want a
"commitment" and who loved to hit on my friends in front of me. It
lost me female friends as well as self-esteem. Why stick with him?
He was the first guy I'd had an interest in who'd ever shown an
interest back. However, it fell apart finally because I started
verbally fighting back, and he got too frustrated. Then I went and
found a "nice guy" to date and broke that cycle, having learned a bit
of a lesson. I'm now married to another "nice guy" and have two
wonderful "nice guy" properties.

It weighs heavily on my healer nature as more and more friends (both
women and men) confide in me about sexual abuse, rape, physical abuse,
emotional abuse, etc. It can sometimes be hard to stop suspecting all
men. Especially when I wander around on the Internet and run into a
lot of jerks. However, I try to take some time on occasion to
appreciate what I have, and remember all of the guys I know and have
known who aren't abusers, rapists, or jerks. I will not allow myself
to become convinced that an entire gender is the enemy. That just
makes me one more neurotic, frightened, overstressed member of a
society that needs people with their heads together.

I happen to like men. Or, I should say, men I've gotten to know well
and consider friends. I'm a fairly trusting person, but I do make men
follow certain protocols if they want to get to know me (e.g. start
out in a public setting, etc.) I don't want my basic optimism to turn
into pie in the sky stupidity.

No, I'm not fishing for soothing reassurances, and I already
know the short-term answers: 'We stand men because for a time yet
we must,' or words to that effect.

As I have said to a few folks of late...I'd hate a world without men.
They have equipment particular to their bodies that I rather like
doing painful things to. :) This isn't to punish them for being
men. This is because of who I am, and trust me that the folks I do
these kinds of things to enjoy it (or enjoy doing it for me).

I'm looking for your deeper understanding of the widening (it
seems to me) gulf between us, despite all the recent enlightenment
we seem to enjoy (some of us at least).

There seem to be a lot of organizations who want us all to believe
there is a gender war going on. I vote that we all refuse to
participate. ;) This is a major cause of stress on both sides.

*hugs after reading your own story*

All that said, what I have read the last few days really confirms
a growing feeling that we are about a century too late- that we are
living in a killer culture, that Fear is our currency, and that
we have killed the planet with our greed. I see a bright future for
women if we survive the next century, but not much of anything for
the men we men still are. And I'm an optimist.

If we allow ourselves to believe we are too late, then we give
ourselves permission to stop fighting and hand the world over to the
hate mongers. To me, this is unacceptable.

Dee-Ann

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 00:46:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: dee@renaissoft.com (Dee-Ann LeBlanc)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: How to change society
Message-Id: <199605310746.AAA07085@davinci.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 5333

Jet wrote:

Exactly...We need to teach our children, train our men, stand against
the sort of 'abuse encouragement/support' that society/media want
us to overlook or just ignore. How many years did it take before
they started seeing children as having 'rights?' And still, our children
are abused in schools by teachers telling our children that it's okay
for people to bully you, extort money, hurting you--not directly saying
it, but ignoring it.

For teaching our children, a few ideas:

1. Teachers in schools are horribly overloaded. They can barely
keep up with the scholastic aspects of their classes, let alone the
rising number of overly stressed and abused kids. Teachers need
assistance, rather than being blamed as the primary problem.
2. Perhaps in earlier grades requiring _everyone_ to take short
courses of home economics and shop will help to deal with a bit of the
"only girls take that" and "only boys take that." Trying to actually
make both courses interesting to both genders is the challange. If
all of the boys find home economics boring, they will continue to
think of it as girl's stuff. If the girls find shop boring or
overwhelming, they will continue to think of it as boy's stuff or
beyond them.
3. Deal severely with teachers who are proven to have treated one
gender like they can't do something on a repeated basis. I know a
woman who was brilliant at math until in high school she wasn't
allowed to take 2 math courses simultaenously, while some guy with a
worse track record was. After that, she was convinced she couldn't do
math.
4. School sports is a biggie. IMO a lot of male school sports
coaches encourage their players to objectify women. They certainly
encourage them to value testosterone and other macho bull. Though,
this differs between countries. School football, for instance, is
huge in the US. It's not that big in Canada. Canada doesn't have
that US "school spirit" thing going and maybe it's a good thing. You
don't have academic programs being shafted to help the school football
team. Also, women's sports tend to be underfunded compared to men's
sports.
5. Find some way to stop young guys from taking steroids! Great
way to become more aggressive, hostile, and dangerous. Convince them
that not only is it horrible for their bodies, but unnecessary. This
comes back to self image. Guys are being hit more and more by the
same looks bull that women have been slammed with over the years.
It's pushing male teens even faster into going for the steroids so
they won't be scrawny.
6. Self esteem in general is important for both genders. Low
self esteem pushes guys to be bullies, or doormats. It pushes women
to be doormats, or catty. It's driving both genders into eating
disorders, which damages the body for life. There are enough parents
at home telling their kids that they're losers, enough people who
aren't their parents telling their entire generation that they're
losers (as a gen-xer trust me, I understand). Let's find ways to help
teens feel like winners that don't involve violence, drugs, rape,
etc.

*phew* that's it for this list for now. :)

How do we teach the jerk older guys the error of their ways? An
addition to an earlier post is to contribute to proving wrong the
concept of the "white male as victim" that seems to be getting popular
among guys who can't get jobs. They need to understand that no one is
getting jobs. And, IMO severely biased quota systems just contribute
to this problem, and don't benefit anyone in the long term.

I'm home schooling my daughter for the next two or more
years because the school is not showing support in helping to irradicate
these problems. So in home schooling my daughter, I will give her
the standard (reading, math, science, history, english, etc.)
education she needs, but she will also take martial arts, classes
classes on self-esteem, weight training, classes that will help
her understand how to make decisions/the decision making processes,
and all the things that children don't seem to get in school.

Sounds great. :) My main concern with home schooling is making sure
the child learns how to deal with other folks. What kind of exposure
does your daughter have to other kids her age?

Actually, the media is finally showing older women doing things
other than sitting in a rocking chair-they are more vibrant and active.
They are starting to portray healthy young women in their ads,
instead of those stick thin Twiggy skeletons/waifs that have been
around since the 60's. They are showing people eating more healthy
than they have ever before. So the media, can change things. It
takes time and a lot of calling on our part to get those changes to
happen. But the changes can happen.

I was reading somewhere that some ad agency started using women of all
sizes. They've had unbelievable amounts of calls and letters thanking
them for portraying "real women." This should certainly help them
decide to do it more often.

Dee-Ann

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 00:57:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: dee@renaissoft.com (Dee-Ann LeBlanc)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Castration
Message-Id: <199605310757.AAA07329@davinci.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 678

Christine & David Stevenson wrote:

Is this a problem for the administrator, or simply a quirk of the net?

[replies going back to a person instead of the list]

This is a "problem" of the person whose mail is going to them instead
of the list. They've set up their mailer to set their "reply-to"
field to themselves. The default in the case of this list is for
replies to go to the list.

Dee-Ann

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 01:25:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: How I got named
Message-Id: <199605310825.BAA08663@netcom2.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 3876

After my long unwinding last night, Patricia asked:

Coyote you are so eloquent sometimes, are you Native American?

No, Ma'am, but thank you for putting it that way. :]

I'm native to Arizona and raised there and in New Mexico, rural
enough at times to really partake of all the cultures around
me, both Native and _criollo_, meaning cowboy and Mexican and even a
summer fighting forest fires on an otherwise Mormon crew. whew!

I don't really think a person can pick up Native American ways of
thinking or seeing without being born into it- I've seen a lot of trendy
people try, sooooo hip and spiritual after a week in Taos or Tuscon or
dropping a little peyote- but some NA have been kind to me and my family
over the years, and my brother was accepted by the Hopi/Tewa as a _pahana_
because, as a photographer, he took care never to intrude on -or dine out
on- their mysteries. Mostly he just hung out with them and took it all in.
My own experience has been a little more touristy and superficial, but I have
sat thorugh a few sweats, shared tripe with mangy res' dogs, was pre-topped
by a fierce, brilliant Navajo feminist, seen a _hosteen_ or two die well far
from home in a white man's war, seen a few more die drunk and sad right here
in the big city, and got sober with some of the survivors. My interest in
shamanic practice I got from a Lakota cop and holy man who was teaching my
priest, but I never (yet) got the hang of it, only just enough to really
_yearn_ for the parts I don't know: the curse of the dabbler. I know just
enough about my native neighbors to know I'm fated to be outside them, which
is part of the estrangement I howled about last night.

I need to tell this group about Dawn Woman, but not tonight,,,

An earliest memory is of a starlit winter dawn and hearing the coyotes
howling and yipping (they don't exactly _sing_, really), quite near, not
up the canyon at all, smelling the horses or dogs. Much later in life,
this incident repeated whenever I was near a turning point and needed to
hear,,,something, but never on a cold winter morning, until finally there
was this, written several years ago for my Wise Woman friend, Rainbow
Serpent, because I badly wanted to throw myself at her:

A few weeks ago on a morning [in early December], up just before dawn,
looking down on the lights of Tucson and across to the Santa Catalinas,
the clouds from the storm clearing now, leaving bitter cold and snow on
the heights (seen in fading starlight), bright stars still out, suddenly
from not too far away a joyful pack of coyotes called and sang to me and
gave me their blessing. At first I wanted to go back to the warm inside,
but then realized this was a gift for me, and only me, and had last
happened (an almost identical scene) when I was tiny and lived on the old
ranch at Beaver Creek. It was like my childhood and innocence were being
given back to me, and I felt very empowered and __alive__.
I had let that go in the 3 months or so....
But it's a gift I have to pass on if I want to
keep it, so here: it's yours now, too. - These things really
do just happen, but the fact is that they are there for
anyone who is open to them and will let them happen.
They happen to me about 3 or 4 times a year, when I
let them.
The advice "Let it be" is really a call to vigorous
action: Throw off the blinders and look around you. There's
a lot of energy in that, and in silence.

Well, she would have slapped me for my effrontery right then and
there, just because she could, but she was in Austin, and so instead
she named me Coyote Sings. :)

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 04:02:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: The Rape / Castration / Firearms Capillary
Message-Id: <199605311102.EAA21793@netcom2.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 3347

Wa! Patricia talks about eloquence. She knows. Read what she wrote (here
edited and chopped up a bit- go back and see her post)

You asked why women still even deal with men, I think the answer is
because we are a warm and loving gender. It is in our nature to have
peace.

After all this time, this is finally dawning on me as true,
deep down, gut-level really true. Please keep saying that.
It means that women taking power, however they do it, even if
it isn't always 'nice,' and heavy manners are involved, is at
bottom [no pun] loving and peaceful. Women must know that in
nature 'love' and 'peace' have ancient, almost cellular meanings
that men have forgotten. Or so it seems to me.

We [men] are terrified of chaos, including the chaos of nature,
and so are blind its beauty. For us 'peace' really means 'order'
and 'love' means 'have.' Womens' use of those words seem to be
more about just 'living' or 'living in nature,' and not so
value-loaded. I hope I got that right.

When I say I carry a gun and will kill, it does not give me
great pleasure the idea of killing. It gives me great pleasure in the
being able to survive. If I had my choice I would never hurt another
living thing. I do not even kill bugs. But I did not start the
violence and my life is worth saving.

That about bugs says volumes: they are our our ancestors and our
heirs. Just last night I negotiated a truce between 2 spiders-
they each got opposite corners of the bedroom ceiling.
I'll bet you even have a 'bug cup' somewhere for quick rescues.

Maybe that the difference between women having guns and men having guns.
Men seem to see the gun as the object of wonder, they almost worship
them. Women see the gun as an object of utility, to be put up with, if
they want to live another day to see the sunset which is to them an
object of wonder.

I've seen this when I watch women shoot: once they really accept
a gun for what it is, and can do- overcoming the fantasies laid
on them by the culture- they get to be very cool shots, indeed.
The men go on romancing the thing,,,
In Vietnam the VC crewed weapons -rockets and mortars- were
often 'manned' by young (and not so young) women, who, babies on
their hips at times, had no illusions at all about what the
stakes were: their homes.

Women make homes...I mean not just in houses but everywhere they go.
you see a woman bring flowers for her desk and the whole office lights
up. She wears a power suit with a silk camisile underneath.

You stressed that image when you first started posting, and
it the way it departed from mens' fantasies made me think:
'She's speaking for _herself_, about herself, not about what
I think she should be.' Wow. Home. Womanspace. Virginia Woolf's
'A Room Of Her Own.' In Her Image. Safe place. It got my vote.
Thank You for that.
--
coyote sings / man and sky / amfas@netcom.com

Show up. Lighten up. Pay attention. Feel awe. Make it count.
The rest is hidden.

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 08:08:29 -0400
From: Andrew
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Slapping down Andrew< was Re: Carrying firearms.]
Message-ID: <31AEE13D.78D9@packet.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Nina Elfman wrote:

I would like to remind the subbie guys on the list that their sexual
feelings are better expressed in a different forum. This entire sub-thread
where Andrew begins deluging us with his sexual fantasies of slavery to a
femdom seems inappropriate for the list as a whole judging from what I
have been reading since I subscribed. I haven't read the list's faq yet
so I may be in eror. But his comments do bother me. Perhaps only because
I feel like the addressee of his letter did, that he is trying to force
something in my face that I did not ask for and do not welcome. On the
other hand I wouldn't mind reading a nicely worded imaginativly written
fantasy from the domme or sub perspective. I would feel that something
like that was "offered" for my entertainment rather than forced upon me
as was this blatant------
"notice me love me take me under your wing" plea(and his self-description
of it as "pitiful whimperings" is quite accurate_
since you recognize it as such andrew now you know to find another
way to express those feelings
. We are not telling you not to have those
feelings-just find a better less offensive way/different forum for
them)

. And if this *is* the only way Andrew knows how to express
himself Andrew would be well advised to seek a forum where
his writings would be better accepted such as: alt.sex.personals.(bondage
etc.)



Oh my! Well, I certainly don't want to be the object of a flame war, so I won't
engage in a battle over the context of the complaint. Very briefly: It is
entirely possible that some Female subscribers do not actually practice all of the
activities associated with FemDom, such as receiving anal worship from subservient
males. Should Ms. Nina Elfman be in that category, then, based on Her failure to
grasp the gist of my post, I could count two types of tongue-in-cheek that She is
missing out on enjoying. Oh well, I am sure that any blame for the failure to
achieve effective communication is mine, and for that I apologize. Anyway, She
couldn't have been too upset since She was kind enough to "slap me down" and She
must realize how enjoyable that would be for me....

impersonally,

andrew

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 07:51:48 CDT
From: bodie167@houston.email.net
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: How to treat criminals (Re: castration)
Message-Id: <9605310751.S703523840@houston.email.net

Rather than offer theories, I'll post a question. Should society look at
ways of making the conditions under which these men exist, more of the
living hell they already face?

I would say not. Society would better spend it's time trying to find ways to
avoid such crimes happening in the first place.

We all agree on that? But will that happen in our lifetime. And, until that
happens ...?

Nooo. We DON'T all agree with that. While certainly "getting to the
root causes, blah blah blah" certainly needs to be one tool in the
arsenal to attach ALL crime and anti-social behavior, I'm going to
play the heretic here and point something out: There is a large
segment of the population that will only STOP commiting crime if
there is a likelihood that they will be caught and PUNISHED for it.
The reinstitution and increase in capital punishment of late and
the manditory sentencing has been the cause of the drop in crime.
among THIS group.
The group that is hopeless -- the psychotic, habitual sick criminal
will not be helped by punishment or stopped by punishment. But my
contention is that this segment is tiny compared to the criminal type
described above. While I don't want to see draconian measures anymore
than other people, we have to face the fact that we are animals --
mostly the males I speak of -- and will try to get away with whatever
we can get away with. Hence, the need for effective detterents will
always be necessary. .

Thanks for your ears and eyes, bodie

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 08:00:07 CDT
From: bodie167@houston.email.net
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Prisoners rights.
Message-Id: <9605310800.S703550688@houston.email.net

I think prisoners should have rights too.

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 May 96 15:44:23 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Re: How to treat criminals (Re: castration)
Message-Id: <199605311343.PAA10699@mailbox.swip.net
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On Fri, 31 May 1996 07:51:48 CDT, bodie167@houston.email.net wrote:

play the heretic here and point something out: There is a large
segment of the population that will only STOP commiting crime if
there is a likelihood that they will be caught and PUNISHED for it.
The reinstitution and increase in capital punishment of late and
the manditory sentencing has been the cause of the drop in crime.
among THIS group.

In my opinion you are making some quite serious statements here. Can
you cite a source?

Don't forget: Once a criminal has passed the line, and commited crimes
for which he's certain to be sentenced to death, he no longer has any
reason to spare anyone. He's desparate, and may as well kill anyone he
happens to meet for kicks. This is not the kind of criminal I would want
society to *create*.

According to the news media there have also been several miscarriages
of justice, where people, perhaps not innocent, but not guilty of a crime
punishable by death either, have been put to death.

I cannot condone state sanctioned murder.

---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden


the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 07:07:11 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Prisoners rights.
Message-Id: <199605311407.HAA16822@dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com

David, I certainly agree with you that prisoners should have basic
rights assured. Mercy should always temper justice. Loss of liberty
is a serious punishment, and should be enough to satisfy society.
Prison life need not be luxurious, but should not be a nightmarish
hell-hole either. I think prison should be run like a monastary, where
meditation, peaceful employment, and the pursuit of refinement should
fill their days. They should live simply, but healthfully, and a
positive and nurturing emotional climate should be cultivated.
Discipline should include positive rewards for good behavior. In cases
where imprisonment seems too severe, community service and/or fines
(payments to the victims) should be enough.

I believe all violent and anti-social criminals should be required to
be psychologically and physically well-evaluated the first time they
are caught committing a crime...certainly before they are released from
prison. Appropriate treatment for health problems should be a
condition for parole.

I feel in cases where brain disfunction or other health problem exists,
the person should be considered impaired and that should be considered
a mitigating factor. In other cases, a person is driven by the
desperation of poverty, which I feel should also be considered a
mitigating factor. There are things which the criminal can't control
themselves; they need society's help, and with society's help should be
allowed to win forgiveness.

Even in the more humane future the possibility of abuse of prisoners
exists. When a person is controlled, they are vunerable to whomever
controls them. In the case of crimes of conscious, for example, when a
group reasonably bands together and goes against society because of a
difference of opinion, the temptation of the dominant, established
faction would be to label them all crazy, and might very benevolently
dope them up to the gills to keep them docile. This is a real danger.

--
Laura Goodwin

" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."

(William Shakespeare)

the subject "help".

--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #84
***********************************************

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femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 85

Today's Topics:
Re: How to treat criminals (Re: castration)
Re: Living with ADD
Our own spiritual path (Re: How I got named)
Re: Cutting off balls and all that
Re: Babboons and Seals
Re: Castration
Hilary-a second child
screw ewe androol
Re: screw ewe androol
Re: screw ewe androol
Society outlaws. (Was: Re: Prisoners rights.)
Primal justice. (Was: Re: Castration)
Re: Prisoners rights.
Re: Society outlaws. (Was: Re: Prisoners rights.)
femsupremacy politicians after the revolution
SUP New Approach to Gender Issues
Re: femsupremacy politicians after the revolution
Re: screw ewe androol
Re: femsupremacy politicians after the revolution
Re: screw ewe androol
Re: femsupremacy politicians after the revolution

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 10:17:18 -0500
From: kriv@interlog.com (peter)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: How to treat criminals (Re: castration)
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

My Precious Mistress Lady Jet wrote:

The question posed here does make a person dig deep within herself/
himself to try to find the answer. Is there an answer?

Bodie wrote:

Nooo. We DON'T all agree with that. While certainly "getting to the
root causes, blah blah blah" certainly needs to be one tool in the
arsenal to attach ALL crime and anti-social behavior, I'm going to
play the heretic here and point something out: There is a large
segment of the population that will only STOP commiting crime if
there is a likelihood that they will be caught and PUNISHED for it.
The reinstitution and increase in capital punishment of late and
the manditory sentencing has been the cause of the drop in crime.
among THIS group.
The group that is hopeless -- the psychotic, habitual sick criminal
will not be helped by punishment or stopped by punishment. But my
contention is that this segment is tiny compared to the criminal type
described above. While I don't want to see draconian measures anymore
than other people, we have to face the fact that we are animals --
mostly the males I speak of -- and will try to get away with whatever
we can get away with. Hence, the need for effective detterents will
always be necessary.


But what is an effective deterrent? Justice in the Middle East has for
centuries has called for criminals to have their hands cut off. But there
are still thefts.

I don't think education is the only answer either. I believe we should be
educating males, etc. but it's going to take more than a few years to
change what's been happening for centuries.

Until that happens we do need deterrence. But what kind of deterrence? I
don't believe in capital punishment. Until there is an effective solution,
should we just be content invoking revenge? Knowing that these people are
suffering a lengthy personal hell for what they've done?

Peter




the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 07:52:02 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Living with ADD
Message-Id: <199605311452.HAA27930@dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com

coyote wrote:

1. Take time out get quiet (meditation, etc)
2. Simplify surroundings and stimuli
3. Get physical...
There are other little tricks: drink tons of water, eat
bananas... :)

Right. I do all these things and have for years. As the stresses and
complexity of my life increased, I felt I needed extra help to cope, so
I have sought treatment.

Both my kids have this thing too...our home is a loving home, but an
ADHD circus. We have a tendancy to bounce off each other like
pong-bong balls in a tumbling barrel, and with medication and other
management I'm trying to reduce the chaos and emotional extremes we
have been suffering from.

I'm the mistress of creative coping, and I'm pleased that I have lots
of tricks up my sleeve to teach my kids. They won't have to suffer
like I did as a kid. :) ADHD people get on people's nerves with their
erratic ways and their general jumpiness: I experienced alot of
rejection and abuse as a kid. :( My son, OTOH, is an honors student
who has turned my example and advice into a blueprint for living
successfully. :) He is popular, and is using his excess energy to power
a career on the stage.

My daughter, at eight, has some ripening to do, but she does have
friends, and certainly is understood and loved at home. She is having
some academic problems (like I had at that age), but I take courage
knowing that by the time I was in college I was getting all A's and
B's. I have faith that she will be OK too.

I'm really grateful to my husband Bruce, who has given me the stability
in my life that I needed. He's the string for my kite. :)

--
Laura Goodwin

" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."

(William Shakespeare)

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 08:17:12 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Our own spiritual path (Re: How I got named)
Message-Id: <199605311517.IAA29102@dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com

The advice "Let it be" is really a call to vigorous
action: Throw off the blinders and look around you. There's
a lot of energy in that, and in silence.

What a cool post, coyote. :) Thanks for shareing.

I could easily take this as an excuse to revive the spirituality
thread. It's a topic dear to my heart. I have had many adventures in
spiritual exploration, and the story of my quest for the Goddess would
read like an action-adventure romance comedy. :)

Let it be...let yourself be...let the majesty and mystery of life BE.
:)

I can never feel awe without immediately wanting to jump up and dance.
Some people celebrate in stillness, some with ritual; I celebrate with
activity, dancing, (with my heart light as a feather) for the pleasure
of myself, my Goddess, my God. My whole life is a dance of
celebration. I love the Native tradition of sacred dancing: I agree
with it and practice it.
--
Laura Goodwin

" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."

(William Shakespeare)

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 18:37:43 +0100
From: timberwolf@bahnhof.se
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Cutting off balls and all that
Message-Id: <199605311634.SAA24595@sunny.bahnhof.se
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

There have been similar cases of such 'anti-black magic' media hullabaloo in
England. From afar here in Portugal it seems that they too were whipped up
out of thin air by (well meaning) social workers.

Sorry about my absentmindedness. My mind was on the message (most
absentminded people---like professors, you know---are not absentminded
at all, just too concentrated on one single thing. And they are males, lacking
female simultaneous capacity.)

I do not doubt that those social workers, or rather therapists, had convinced
themselves that they were well-meaning. Using their own presuppositions
and techniques, it is however not difficult to discern the power urge behind
their rampages across other people's lives.

TWolf


the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 18:37:47 +0100
From: timberwolf@bahnhof.se
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Babboons and Seals
Message-Id: <199605311634.SAA24599@sunny.bahnhof.se
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

How do female Baboons deal with their mates?

Unfortunately, baboon females do not deal. They are dealt with. Their
life seems to be a sorry one, living in a closely guarded harem ruled
by a violently jealous autocrat. Which just goes to prove that if we
want something good, we cannot get it by appealing to Nature. Mother
Nature is a mean old bitch, to her daughters too.

Here however is a bit of news on the opposite side. In the spring, hares
are often seen jumping about in the fields, boxing each other with their
front paws. It was always supposed that they were males, fighting over
the females. Until some Swedish researchers decided to find out. So they
captured some combatants and sexed them. It turned out that the fights
were females boxing males about their ears (fat targets!) when they
would not take a no for a no ...

TWolf


the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 13:47:20 -0500
From: sorceress@CYBEROTI.COM
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Castration
Message-ID:

There is something about "primal justice," that I find appealing--but my
politically correct intellect rejects it.
CybErotiComm Online

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 13:52:06 -0500
From: sorceress@CYBEROTI.COM
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Hilary-a second child
Message-ID:

FEI was watching HardCopy(I think) and they did a survey of their viewers
FEwih the following question. Hilary says she wants to have another child do
FEyou believe her. 2/3 of the respondents did NOT believe her.
FEWhat does this say about what people think of a strong powerful woman who
FEalso wants to be maternal? Or is this just a comment o n politicians?

Who cares? Whose business is it? Do you *really* care what anyone does
with their genitals or reproductive organs?
CybErotiComm Online

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 16:00:13 -0700
From: Sene Giln
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: screw ewe androol
Message-ID: <31AF79FD.574@interlog.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Andrew wrote:

impersonally,

andrew

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 13:03:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: screw ewe androol
Message-Id: <199605312003.NAA00156@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 536

Sene Giln wrote with the subject "screw ewe androo":

Andrew wrote:

impersonally,

andrew

This is useless and obvious flaming, if a bit lame. I see something
like this from you again you're off the list. Got it?

Dee-Ann
List Administrator

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 16:07:22 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: screw ewe androol
Message-ID: <31AF7BAA.7605@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

DEE-ANN...your so DOM...I love it....and agree..feel like he is infant
child and wants us to hold him up so he can walk. only he weighs 500
lbs.
Patricia
this list has gotten very busy...I like it!


Dee-Ann LeBlanc wrote:

Sene Giln wrote with the subject "screw ewe androo":

Andrew wrote:

impersonally,

andrew

This is useless and obvious flaming, if a bit lame. I see something
like this from you again you're off the list. Got it?

Dee-Ann
List Administrator

___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 May 96 22:32:57 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Society outlaws. (Was: Re: Prisoners rights.)
Message-Id: <199605312031.WAA03501@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On Fri, 31 May 1996 07:07:11 -0700, Laura Goodwin wrote:

Even in the more humane future the possibility of abuse of prisoners
exists. When a person is controlled, they are vunerable to whomever
controls them. In the case of crimes of conscious, for example, when a
group reasonably bands together and goes against society because of a
difference of opinion, the temptation of the dominant, established
faction would be to label them all crazy, and might very benevolently
dope them up to the gills to keep them docile. This is a real danger.

Does this mean that you think groups like Hell's angels are acceptable,
and that a democratic constitutional state shouldn't do all in its power
to inhibit their activities (organized crime etc.)? Perhaps I've
misunderstood what you're saying.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|Magnus Thelander | Fidonet: 2:200/422.21 | Everybody knows, that the
|Drottninggatan 4A | Tel.: +46-708-535155 | best nuts come from
|212 11 Malmo | Timezone= CET + 1 | California.
|Sweden | | -Sunkist
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 May 96 22:38:09 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Primal justice. (Was: Re: Castration)
Message-Id: <199605312036.WAA04552@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On Fri, 31 May 1996 13:47:20 -0500, sorceress@CYBEROTI.COM wrote:

There is something about "primal justice," that I find appealing--but my
politically correct intellect rejects it.

In my opinion there is no need for political correctness to reject
primal justice. Intellect is enough to arrive at that conclusion.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|Magnus Thelander | Fidonet: 2:200/422.21 | Everybody knows, that the
|Drottninggatan 4A | Tel.: +46-708-535155 | best nuts come from
|212 11 Malmo | Timezone= CET + 1 | California.
|Sweden | | -Sunkist
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 23:08:21 +0000
From: Christine & David Stevenson
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Prisoners rights.
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960531230821.007fa638@mail.telepac.pt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 07:07 31/05/96 -0700, Laura Goodwin wrote the principles which I would
like to see form the basis of a new justice system starting with:

David, I certainly agree with you that prisoners should have basic
rights assured......

If you only skimmed it, go back and read it again.

I nominate Laura Goodwin as Mistress of Justice in the new world order.

David Stevenson.

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 01 Jun 1996 03:24:43 +0000
From: Christine & David Stevenson
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Society outlaws. (Was: Re: Prisoners rights.)
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960601032443.00682b30@mail.telepac.pt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 02:31 01/06/96 +0200, Magnus wrote:

The Swedish constitution guarantees anyone the right to form any
organizations. It doesn't grant them permission to engage in organized
crime or activities that endanger the life's and health of others. Hell's
Angels are one of the most prominent examples of neanderthal men in my
opinion. They are bullys of the worst sort.

No doubt you are right Magnus. And maybe you've got good personal reasons
against the Hell's Angels. They are certainly not my favourite bunch either.
But that wasn't my point was it?

However I'm glad your country has a constitution that is in accordance with
the point I was making. If all countries had such constitutions I wouldn't
be quite as worried about such dodgy ground. However some countries like the
UK refuse to have a constitution, just so their citzens cannot take them to
court and claim their rights.

Fortunately, the rest of Europe gives them a little shove now and then, but
not nearly hard enough.

If individual Hells Angels are taken to court for being in breach of Swedens
Laws that's fine. The problem that worries me is the idea of taking them to
court for being a member of the organisation per-se. I still think it's thin
ice.

David Stevenson.


the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 01 Jun 1996 03:58:30 +0000
From: Christine & David Stevenson
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: femsupremacy politicians after the revolution
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960601035830.006b2aa8@mail.telepac.pt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I've just read the alt.sex.femdom.faq, (perhaps a bit late in the day after
17 years with Christine).

Seriously though, I got to the part where the reviewer thinks that Susan
Shellogg/Mistress Sonya had Kissinger as a sub. It set me thinking, will our
post fem-supremacist revolutionary leaders start frequenting such
professionals of the new 'weaker sex'.

Sorry if the thought is irreverent.

David Stevenson.



the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 23:16:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: White Horse
To: femsuprem@renaissoft.com
Subject: SUP New Approach to Gender Issues
Message-Id: <199606010316.XAA32160@hubcap.clemson.edu

Hello,

Below is some information about an innovative workshop I think you
might find valuable. I also have an article(41K) which describes these
workshops in detail:

"Gender and racial relations in Western societies are dysfunctional and
unsustainable in their current forms. In particular, the domination and
exploitation of women is precisely mirrored in the domination and
exploitation of the Earth's natural ecosystems...

Vital changes have been inspired by the women's liberation and gay rights
movements over the past 30 years, as well as the men's movement in the past
decade...

It [the article] describes a new form of exploratory work for promoting
deep healing between men and women in an ecological context. Ten prototype
workshops have been held in the United States and Australia over the past
three years, and the results are highly encouraging...

We have accumulated considerable anecdotal data from participants about their
experiences in our gender workshops...

The anecdotal feedback has been illuminating and helpful for further
development of the prototype workshops..."

A systematic analysis of this data needs to be conducted, and a formal
evaluative procedure needs to be applied to assess the efficacy of this work.
Nevertheless, some preliminary patterns in participants' responses are
summarized in this article.


Please feel free to email me for more info about these results at
claudir@hubcap.clemson.edu See the workshop information below.

Cheers,
Claudia
* + + +
+ Join ECOPSYCHOLOGY at listserv@sjuvm.stjohns.edu
+ subscribe ecopsychology firstname lastname
+ "Integrating Mind and Nature" |< |< claudir@hubcap.clemson.edu


GENDER AND ECOPSYCHOLOGY:
HEALING BETWEEN WOMEN, MEN, AND THE EARTH
July 27 - August 1, 1996
Shenoa Retreat Center (near San Francisco)


You are invited to an unusual gathering of women and men for exploration and
healing of our relationships with eachother and with the Earth.

Over the past 25 years, the women's and men's movements have created a
powerful context for women and men--separately--to address gender issues,
heal their wounds, and make new choices. Now, there is an urgent need for
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Restoring balance between women and men is fundamental to restoring balance
to our relationship with the Earth. Join us--whether straight, gay, or bi
--for intensive exploration and healing as we reawaken the fundamental unity
that underlies our apparent separation.


Content of the workshop:

* ecopsychology: bridging ecology, psychology, and spirituality
* experiential breathwork for accessing inner wisdom
* councils, group process work, movement, ritual
* ecofeminism, feminist psychology, and the new male psychology
* same-sex groups for in-depth exploration with others of same gender


WORKSHOP FACILITATORS


Will Keepin, PhD, Director of Integral Sustainability Associates, has
co-facilited over a dozen gender healing workshops in US and Australia

Johanna Johnson, MA, LPC, Integral Sustainability Associates,
psychotherapist specializing in sexual abuse, chronic trauma and
spirituality

Allen Kanner, PhD, co-author of _EcoPsychology: Restoring the Earth, Healing
the Mind_

Amy E. Fox, BA, co-founder of the National Religious Partnership for the
Environment at the Cathedral of St. John the Divine


REGISTER early, before June 15, 1996 for reduced expenses! Some partial
scholarships are also available.

For more information, contact Claudia at claudir@hubcap.clemson.edu




the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 01 Jun 96 05:17:32 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Re: femsupremacy politicians after the revolution
Message-Id: <199606010316.FAA25006@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On Sat, 01 Jun 1996 03:58:30 +0000, Christine & David Stevenson wrote:

Shellogg/Mistress Sonya had Kissinger as a sub. It set me thinking, will our
post fem-supremacist revolutionary leaders start frequenting such
professionals of the new 'weaker sex'.

I'm confused. Are you asking, whether the women leaders would frequent
professional male subs?

---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden


the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 23:29:11 -0400
From: Andrew
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: screw ewe androol
Message-ID: <31AFB907.3366@packet.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Unfortunately, I only permit myself to be abused by Ladies who are actually
superior. This does exclude those whose spelling, grammar, and thought processes
would embarrass a third grader, Ewe nose hoo ewe r; Noble prize winners all. In
the interest of sparing them the anguish of further incomprehension, I shall, and
do hereby,

UNSUBSCRIBE

andrew.

p.m.s. (post-my-subscription) (that means "after my subscription" Patricia)
I in no way mean to insult those intelligent folks who express themselves
courteously and intelligently, and you understand your respective identities too.

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 01 Jun 1996 04:37:06 +0000
From: Christine & David Stevenson
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: femsupremacy politicians after the revolution
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960601043706.006991cc@mail.telepac.pt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 05:17 01/06/96 +0200, Magnus wrote:

I'm confused. Are you asking, whether the women leaders would frequent
professional male subs?

Sorry, I did rather shorthand the point.

Kissinger being a prominent male Politician in a male dominated culture
frequents a Mistress.

It suggested to me the idea that prominent female politicians in a female
dominated culture might actively look for (perhaps underground) professional
male dominants.

David Stevenson. (turning the world on it's head).

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 23:36:06 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: screw ewe androol
Message-ID: <31AFE4D6.3C53@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

That's Nobel Prize....good move while jumping on high horse of
correcting others spelling to spell that one wrong..see him jumping on
high horse only to slip and fall on his arse.....that's ass to you
andrew..
patricia

Andrew wrote:
This does exclude those whose spelling, grammar, and thought processes
would embarrass a third grader Noble prize winners all.

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 23:37:51 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: femsupremacy politicians after the revolution
Message-ID: <31AFE53F.65D9@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Unless of course those female politicians are TOPS..in which case they
will line the subs up outside the front door.
patricia


Christine & David Stevenson wrote:

At 05:17 01/06/96 +0200, Magnus wrote:

I'm confused. Are you asking, whether the women leaders would frequent
professional male subs?

Sorry, I did rather shorthand the point.

Kissinger being a prominent male Politician in a male dominated culture
frequents a Mistress.

It suggested to me the idea that prominent female politicians in a female
dominated culture might actively look for (perhaps underground) professional
male dominants.

David Stevenson. (turning the world on it's head).

___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".

the subject "help".

--------------------------------
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femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 86

Today's Topics:
Re: Living with ADD
Re: How to change society
Women who rape
Politics and fem. supremacy. (Was: Re: femsupremacy politicians after the revolution)
Re: Prisoners rights.
Todays march for children

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 21:12:57 -0700
From: jet@nwlink.com (Jet)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Living with ADD
Message-Id: <199606010412.VAA14939@montana.nwlink.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I advise you to check out the alt.support.attn-deficit NG. Also there
is a great book, *Driven to Distraction* By Dr. Hallowell.

My former sub had Adult ADD and I bought him that book, but he
read enough to know he had it, then proceeded to continue in his
regular ADD mode and dropped the ball. Oh well....

+Please+ be careful out there with those meds!
When I first started looking around, Ritalin was the standard,
but it too can have really scary side-effects.

There are at least 15 different drugs they use now for treating ADD and
ADHD. If one doesn't work another will. I don't know if there are any
herbs that will treat it, but checking with an herbalist or an alternative
MD/ND may help with that. I hate taking drugs because they usually
don't affect me the way they affect the norm, so it makes it hard to know
and I try to stay with more natural remedies.


involvement, etc may have more of a challenge. The nice thing-
the one really nice thing about ADD, some have told me- is
that the urgency of the diagnosis gives one =permission= to at
last get rid of some old baggage and lighten the load.

Someone else I know with ADD told me that if she had to have something
wrong with her, this was the thing because when
she gets going on something, she has this single-mindedness that helps
her finish things. OF COURSE, she said, it has to be something she likes
to do. She also mentioned that when she has sex, she focuses so totally
on it that her partners are in awe of her. ; ) Not such a bad thing.

Jet

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
That's the risk you take if you change: that the people you've
been involved with won't like the new you. But other people
who do will come along. --Lisa Alther

Jet Tenley P.O. Box 25171
jet@nwlink.com Seattle, WA 98125-2071
Phone: (206)527-0492 FAX: (206)517-3038

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 21:13:06 -0700
From: jet@nwlink.com (Jet)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: How to change society
Message-Id: <199606010413.VAA14958@montana.nwlink.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Dee-Ann--

1. Teachers in schools are horribly overloaded. They can barely
keep up with the scholastic aspects of their classes, let alone the
rising number of overly stressed and abused kids. Teachers need
assistance, rather than being blamed as the primary problem.

Yes, it is true and teachers do need assistance, but when my daughter
comes home and tells me the teachers are constantly being rude to
the children, saying shut-up, not explaining things to them, the mean
kids literally get the attention, while the 'good' kids are ignored...

I volunteer in my daughter's school...I was in her class, I had to leave to
go to the restroom and just after I left the class, a child asked the
teacher a question to which the teacher yelled, 'Just shut up." Now,
the child that asked the question was asking about a math sequence
(algebra) that she didn't understand. I looked back through the door
and looked at the teacher, who seeing me immediately turned red as
a beet. This is really not acceptable behavior from a teacher...I'm sorry,
but I will not let my daughter be in a class where the teacher is like
that--- I'm pulling my daughter out of the school and will be home
schooling her because of that.

I blame society as well for this...when every year, the school district
asks for money for the schools to hire more teachers, give teachers
much needed raises, money for books, supplies, etc. and the society
votes it down. Last election, I heard so many saying that they didn't
have kids, why should we pay for them...and in the same breath say,
"look at all the teen crime, teens on drugs, teens on the streets, teens
that can't read, teen pregnancy, etc." These teens/children are our
future leaders...if we don't support the schools financially, the future
leaders are the ones making the decisions for those who don't want
to give money to the schools because they don't have kids.

I agree and disagree with you on this issue.

2. Perhaps in earlier grades requiring _everyone_ to take short
courses of home economics and shop will help to deal with a bit of the
"only girls take that" and "only boys take that." Trying to actually
make both courses interesting to both genders is the challange. If
all of the boys find home economics boring, they will continue to
think of it as girl's stuff. If the girls find shop boring or
overwhelming, they will continue to think of it as boy's stuff or
beyond them.

I agree with this.

3. Deal severely with teachers who are proven to have treated one
gender like they can't do something on a repeated basis. I know a
woman who was brilliant at math until in high school she wasn't
allowed to take 2 math courses simultaenously, while some guy with a
worse track record was. After that, she was convinced she couldn't do
math.

I agree with this...That happened to my daughter this year. Math
was always her favorite subject, until this year...now she hates it
and thinks it's too hard.

4. School sports is a biggie. IMO a lot of male school sports
coaches encourage their players to objectify women. They certainly
encourage them to value testosterone and other macho bull. Though,
this differs between countries. School football, for instance, is
huge in the US. It's not that big in Canada. Canada doesn't have
that US "school spirit" thing going and maybe it's a good thing. You
don't have academic programs being shafted to help the school football
team. Also, women's sports tend to be underfunded compared to men's
sports.

I think they should not make such a big deal about sports, and use more
money for books and other academic endeavors.

5. Find some way to stop young guys from taking steroids! Great
way to become more aggressive, hostile, and dangerous. Convince them
that not only is it horrible for their bodies, but unnecessary. This
comes back to self image. Guys are being hit more and more by the
same looks bull that women have been slammed with over the years.
It's pushing male teens even faster into going for the steroids so
they won't be scrawny.

Exactly... They are also becoming anorexic and bulimic for the same
reasons that women do. I was just reading an article about men's
health that was talking about the "male" eating disorders.

6. Self esteem in general is important for both genders. Low
self esteem pushes guys to be bullies, or doormats. It pushes women
to be doormats, or catty. It's driving both genders into eating
disorders, which damages the body for life. There are enough parents
at home telling their kids that they're losers, enough people who
aren't their parents telling their entire generation that they're
losers (as a gen-xer trust me, I understand). Let's find ways to help
teens feel like winners that don't involve violence, drugs, rape,
etc.

I agree with you here in a big way. You've hit the nail on the head.
We need to ensure our kids have high esteem, high confidence. I feel
there should be classes in problem solving/resolution, anger managment,
how to feel good about yourself and build self-esteem and self-confidence
classes. There are things I will be teaching my daughter, plus she will
be taking swimming lessons, martial arts, she will walk with me every
day (she's a kinesthetic learner) and we'll talk about school work as
we go, we'll go to the museums and lectures, which children generally
don't go to during the school day, and she'll do volunteer work. I am
also going to teach her about balancing a check book, more about
cooking (she already can do the basics) and a lot about the computer.
One of my friends here, has a daughter who may become a penpal with
my daughter which will improve her computer and her writing skills.
At this point, I think home schooling for the next 2 years will help her
with the skills she will need in High school where she will really need
her wits about her.

One of the other things I'm going to work with her on is guys. The
lines (Trust me, I love you, we can f**k just once and you won't get
pregnant because you're a virgin....), how to protect herself, all
about condoms and how to use them (on a banana, of course), and
everything she needs to know, so if she get4s involved with a guy,
she can make intelligent decisions without feeling pressure. Things
she will need to know anyway.

*phew* that's it for this list for now. :)

Of course, we know there is so much more involved.

How do we teach the jerk older guys the error of their ways? An
addition to an earlier post is to contribute to proving wrong the
concept of the "white male as victim" that seems to be getting popular
among guys who can't get jobs. They need to understand that no one is
getting jobs. And, IMO severely biased quota systems just contribute
to this problem, and don't benefit anyone in the long term.

You are right about the job situation, but so many of those guys
believe that they are being screwed by women and minorities...

Sounds great. :) My main concern with home schooling is making sure
the child learns how to deal with other folks. What kind of exposure
does your daughter have to other kids her age?

There won't be a problem with that. There are support networks out
there for people that home school and they have a system for the kids
to all get together... She takes swimming lessons, martial arts lessons
and has a lot of friends already (severaL that went to different middle
schools) that she plays with on a regular basis. I've got that handled
already-- that was the very first thing I looked into. Plus, there are two
other mothers at her school that are fed up as well, and the 3 of us will
share the load of home schooling together, which also will help with the
peer/kids her age problem.

I was reading somewhere that some ad agency started using women of all
sizes. They've had unbelievable amounts of calls and letters thanking
them for portraying "real women." This should certainly help them
decide to do it more often.

That is really terrific!

Have a good weekend everyone!


Dee-Ann--

The problem is that the female rape victims who go out and rape men in
return are hurting themselves as well as the men. That kind of anger
isn't healthy, and consumes the soul. They're really continuing to
victimise themselves as they go out and victimise others. And, what
if the man they victimise was a wonderful guy, who had never hurt a
woman, etc.? What if she turns him into a misogynist?

You are absolutely right. I think that if a man is raped, I believe he
would turn totally inward... Men have a hard time when they are put
in a position where they have no power in a situation like this.

A man who choose to be submissive, but a man forced into it is a different
story. I met a sub in Seattle, that when put into bondage (which was
consensual), was raped by a large number of people (men/women with
strap-ons and was not concensual). He has totally withdrawn from the
smbd community, isolated, and has so much anger (directed inward and
outward) that he cannot function. I suggested he go to a counselor,
but he is too embarrassed. I don't know the whole story because I don't
know who the Domme was, but it is too bad that it happened.

That's why rape is hard on either gender. Rape harms not only the
body, but the spirit/psyche/heart of a person. When someone gets raped,
it leaves the victim with an immense feeling of powerlessness. It is very
hard to overcome. It has taken me years to get over what my mom and
step-dad did. Thankfully, the anger and powerlessness has been handled.
It comes back emotionally from time to time and I'm sure you understand
why I'm a Domme and not a sub or a switch.

This also comes back to the fact that just because one person was
victimised, that doesn't give them the right to turn around and
victimise someone else. That just continues the cycle of abuse.

Exactly right, Dee-Ann! I broke the cycle, many do not or are not able
to break that cycle... It takes years for the victim to acknowledge that
it wasn't their fault, that there was nothing they could do to prevent it.
With counselling, the victims learn those things, plus they learn to
become empowered and become survivors, eventually learning how to thrive.
It is not easy, whether the abuse/rape happens in childhood or in adulthood,
but it can be overcome. It does not mean that the experience will not
surface, but if it does come up, it can be dealt with internally without
the acting out that Dee-Ann was commenting on. Cycles of abuse can be
broken...

Jet

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
That's the risk you take if you change: that the people you've
been involved with won't like the new you. But other people
who do will come along. --Lisa Alther

Jet Tenley P.O. Box 25171
jet@nwlink.com Seattle, WA 98125-2071
Phone: (206)527-0492 FAX: (206)517-3038

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 01 Jun 96 06:38:41 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Politics and fem. supremacy. (Was: Re: femsupremacy politicians after the revolution)
Message-Id: <199606010437.GAA00366@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On Fri, 31 May 1996 23:37:51 -0700, Noble wrote:

Unless of course those female politicians are TOPS..in which case they
will line the subs up outside the front door.

This sparked another twist to the subject in my warped mind (it was
warped before I started using Warp) :).

In Sweden we have a party system. I.e. if you choose to do volounteer
work, you do it for a party and not a single politician, which, as far as
I understand, is the way it works in the U.S.A. This annoys me a bit,
because I can't choose to selectively support a female politician without
at the same time supporting the entire party with my work. I wish we had a
system more like the American :(.

---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden


the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 06:07:39 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Prisoners rights.
Message-Id: <199606011307.GAA14734@dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com

I nominate Laura Goodwin as Mistress of Justice in the new world
order.

David Stevenson.

:::bowing::: Why thank you! :)

Do I get a tiara and an armband? :)
--
Laura Goodwin

" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."

(William Shakespeare)

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 01 Jun 1996 09:35:05 -0700
From: Noble
To: Femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Todays march for children
Message-ID: <31B07139.5C4F@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hundreds of thousands of men, women and children are gathering at the
Lincoln Memorial in Washington D.C. today to support our Children.
Called the Stand For Children Day there is a web page where you can sign
on with your support for the event. It is asking the federal government
to keep supporting those programs that benefit children. The
Conservative and Religious Right are protesting the event (our best
friends) If you would like to send in your name for supporting the
children, the gathering and federal aid for children...go to
http://www.stand.org/pledge.html
and sign in with your support.
Patricia

the subject "help".

--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #86
***********************************************

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The Dominatrix in Print and Other Media

An Annotated Bibliography and Subject Index


Prepared by Mistress Blanca and Peter (Green Way)

viaverde@ix.netcom.com
http://www.viaverde.com/sex/

Version 4.9, June 1, 1996

Copyright 1994 - 1996

Posted On the 1st of Every Month to the alt.sex.femdom,
alt.answers, and news.answers newsgroups





This is an extensive annotated bibliography and detailed subject
index to the books, magazines, newspapers, newsletters, pamphlets,
software, videos, erotic art, audiotapes, Internet resources, CDs, zines
and films about the subject of the Sexually Dominant Woman and Her
ardent devotees. It includes materials on the Mistress, Dominant
Woman, Domina, Dominatrix, Dominatrice, Domme, Female
Dominant, Top Woman, Cruel Woman, Venus in Furs, Ruling Wife,
Dominant Queen, Governess, School Mistress, Sadistic Woman, Bitch,
Butch, Goddess, etc.; and, Her lover, submissive, husband, bottom,
servant, masochist, thrall, underling, slave, worshiper, victim, charge,
pupil, etc.. The submissive(s) may be one or many, male or female.


In keeping with the sexual nature of this particular Internet
newsgroup, alt.sex.femdom, we include materials that discuss erotic
sadomasochism, bondage, discipline, dominant and submissive
relations (i.e., power exchanges, games, role playing, lifestyles, etc.),
fetishes, servitude, female supremacy, body worship, sexual slavery,
sadism, etc..

This listing attempts to give special emphasis to works by female
authors, women owned businesses, or female media producers.


The term "Dominatrix" here includes the interests and
perspectives of a variety of persons that enjoy FemDom BDSM:
FemDom Tops, sub-bottoms, from joyful beginners to happy advanced
players, from monogamous het or lesbian couples to extroverted club
players and pansexual adventurers, to solo masochists that enjoy the
FemDom fantasy, to nonprofessional experts, to playful D/s lovers, to
SM Leather Culture enthusiasts, Perv Stylists and FemDom fetishists,
as well as to include the Professional "BDSM for Hire" Female Tops.



The authors of this work are Mistress Blanca [MB] and her
husband, Peter [SP]. We have collected and enjoyed this type of
material for decades. Both of us are willing to continue efforts to
compile, review, and annotate titles of books, periodicals, films, and
videos for this bibliography. We welcome your inquiries, comments,
suggestions, and additions; as well as your corrections and constructive
criticism. Please send your comments to our e-mail box at:
viaverde@ix.netcom.com. You will always be credited for your
contributions (annotations or comments).


We have benefitted from the posts, previous bibliographic work,
encouragement, suggestions, e-mail contributions and/or e-mail
comments of others: Jay Doubleyou [JW], Leonard, Jay Warren, Xur,
Graham Barron, Karen, Lady Beclan, Modemac, Tristan/Ken, John,
Melissa, VFashion, Christopher Moore, Mistress Infinity - Ms.C,
Francis R. [FR], Minx Kelly, Karen Olsen, tim, Andreas Mann, Robert
J. LeBlanc, Alan S, Coyote Sings, Janet Hayes, an175509, Sherry and
Brett, Pat - L10WC, Robert Hill., Will N., Abdus, Krystine Renee,
Andrea, Galaxy, knave4u, Mistress Nan, Fortuna700, Raley, Mistress
Julie, Keri, Baron d'EST, Fritz Peronius, Shinkoku Ninhwa, Sal, Rob
Jellinghaus, Paddy, Alfred, Ms Amanda, Dirk De Kegel, Forbin,
Patches, Peter G., Thomas tph, farnorth, Patty the Pooch, Mistress
Natasha, Pan Pantziarka [PP], and many others. Please send email to
us at: viaverde@ix.netcom.com



******** ********* *********
******** ********* *********


WHAT IS !! NEW !! IN THIS VERSION


This version of "The Dominatrix in Print and Other Media"
(TDiPaOM), 4.9, 6/1/96 has some new reviews and resources. A
special thanks goes out to Pan Pantziarka, Reviews Editor, Fetish
Times - UK, for information on titles by Maria del Rey. We also thank
Ms. Natasha for information on Bondage Tymes. Check our our
updated BDSM Bookmark at http://www.viaverde.com/sex/.


Our RECENT FAVORITES include:.


My Private Life by Mistress Nan
Bondage Tymes from Goddess Natasha
Women Who Administrer Punishment (Whap!). Magazine
SandMUtopian Guardian. Edited by Nick and Carrie Blume.


RESOURCES:

Quality SM Bookstore, QSM, http://www.qualitysm.com

The Human Sexuality Library at the University of Washington, http://weber.u.washington.edu/~sfpse/index.html.


RESEARCH:

Seeking info on new BDSM mail lists or www pages on Internet?




******** ********* *********
******** ********* *********




The detailed subject index in TDiPaOM includes many works
not cited in the bibliography; but, references to these items are readily
available elsewhere, e.g., in Books in Print, film or video handbooks,
or in university library catalogs accessible on the Internet through
gophers via Telnet.


We use the following conventions in TDiPaOM: 1) Titles of
publications are shown inside _underline marks_; and most words in a
title will begin with a capital letter. 2) Titles of articles within another
publication are shown inside "double quotes." 3) Comments, reviews
or quotes from others are shown inside *asterisk* quotes; and credits
are always given. 4) Organizations, clubs, or businesses that produce
print or media work are listed under the title of the group. 5) Edited or
anonymous works are listed under the title of the work. 6) Pen names,
pseudonyms, stage, working, pen names, e.g., Mistress Blanca, are
filed under the nom de plume.



This bibliography, TDiPaOM, is copyrighted, c 1994 - 1996 by
the persons holding the accounts identified as "viaverde@netcom.com"
and "viaverde@ix.netcom.com (Green Way)." Any unauthorized use,
distribution, or duplication in print or electronic format of TDiPaOM
for commercial gain is prohibited. Individuals may download
TDiPaOM for personal use.



+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++





_Against Sadomasochism: A Radical Feminist Analysis_
Edited by R. Linden, D. Pagano, D. Russell, and S. Star. Palo
Alto, California, Frog in the Well, 1982. Obviously, many seriously
disagree with BDSM power exchanges, and here are some feminist
arguments to think about.


_American Foot Fetish Society_
For Lover's of the Female Foot. AFFS, PO Box 54380,
Cincinnati, Ohio 45254-0380.

Antoniou, Laura, Editor
_By Her Subdued: Erotic Tales of Women's Power_.
Rhinoceros, c 1995, $6.95. Also writes under the name Sara
Adamson.


Antoniou, Laura, Editor
_Leatherwomen 11: Revenge of the Leatherwomen!_ Rosebud,
1994, $4.95.


Antoniou, Laura, Editor
_No Other Tribute: Erotic Tales of Women in Submission_.
Rhinoceros, 1995. $6.95. [SP]


Antoniou, Laura, Editor
_Some Women_. Introduction by Pat Califia. Rhinoceros, 1995,
$6.95.

Antrews, Grant
_My Darling Dominatrix_. New York: Masquerade Books,
Inc., 1992. A Rhinoceros Book. 538 pages. ISBN: 1-56333-055-5.
Price: $6.95 US. Comments: A very well written romantic novel that
explores the emerging love between two successful young persons;
with She being a professional Dominatrix, artist, and vibrant woman.
An intelligent and sensitive story. [MB]


Antrews, Grant
_Submissions_. New York, Masquerade Books, Inc.,
Rhinoceros Books Edition, c 1994. Paperback, $6.95 US. 267 pages.
ISBN: 1-56333-207-8.


Artemis Creations Publishing
Artemis Creations Publishing, 3395 Nostrand Ave. Suite 2-J
Brooklyn, NY 11229.


_Attitude_
A monthly magazine published by the TFN Research Group,
Inc., 10026 Manchester Road, Ste. 214, St. Louis, MO 63122. Phone:
(314) 822-5405. Fax: (314) 822-4975. Price: $10.00 a single copy,
$120.00 for a one-year subscription US. A glossy 8.5" X 11"
magazine format, with 40+ pages per issue. Comments: Short articles,
reviews, B&W and color photos, interviews, list of clubs and
organizations, ads from pro Dommes, video ads, personal classifieds,
letters to editor, etc.. Many photos of beautiful women in fetish attire.
Includes column by Catherine Wolfe. Emphasis upon the viewpoints
and beliefs of the bisexual Dominant "Goddess Dianna Vesta" (GDV),
e.g., female supremacy, submission and training of men, Goddess
worship. A very nice magazine layout and typefaces; but print and
photos are sometimes too light and blurry (e.g, Issue 11). Started in
1991. Owned and operated by women. Previous posts (12/94, 2/96,
3/96) had lively discussions (pro and con) about TFN. The above
address is no longer current. [SP]


_Bad Attitude_
Bad Attitude, Publication of Phantasia Publications, P.O. Box
390110, Cambridge, MA 02139. Jasmine Sterling, Publisher.
Mmmmm, Art Director. 6 issues per year for $24.00. Open minded
and kinky lesbian emphasis. Lesbian erotic fiction, informative
articles, interviews, letters to editor, ads, intimate b&w photographs,
and illustrations. Hot stuff! Lots of D&S. [MB]


Baldwin, Guy
_Ties That Bind: The SM/Leather/Fetish Erotic Style - Issues,
Commentaries and Advice_. Edited by Joseph Bean. Preface by
Gayle Rubin. Los Angeles, Daedalus Publishing Company, c 1993.
244 pages. $14.95. ISBN: 1-881943-09-7. An engaging and
insightful set of articles taken from _Drummer_ magazine. Mr.
Baldwin is a psychotherapist, Mr. Leather title holder, well known
speaker, and sophisticated analyist of the Leather culture and BDSM
interpersonal relationships. [SP]


Barron, Graham
_S&M Bibliography (Revised)_. Authors, titles and date for a
wide variety of S&M books, magazines, and a few films. No
bibliographic information. 9K file. Revised 9/14/94. [SP]


Beauvoir, Simone de
_The Marquis De Sade: An Essay_. With selections from his
writings by Paul Dinnage. New York, Grove Press, 1953.
Chronology, bibliography, 236 pages. LCN: 53-7066. [MB]


_Behind the Scene_
A Journal dedicated to the Disciplinary Female. With Jennifer
Brooks. P.O. Box 2237, Alpine, California, 91903. [SP]


Benjamin, Jessica
_The Bonds of Love: Psychoanalysis, Feminism, and the
Problem of Domination_. New York, Pantheon, 1988. Index (pp.295-
304), Bibliography (pp.225-243), Notes (245-294), ix, 304 pages.
ISBN: 0-394-55133-8. [MB]


Beresford, Titan
_The Wicked Hand_. Masquerade Books, c 1995. Submissive
men masturbated. [SP]


_Bibliography on Feminism and World Politics_
From Victoria Edwards, ae606@FreeNet.Carleton.CA. Based
on Spike Peterson's Bibliography with Supplementary Materials
supplied by Lev Gonick. Posted 12/26/94. Available in
Femsupremacy Archives. 19 Pages.


_Bitches With Whips_
_Bitches with Whips: Dedicated to Female Dominance_.
Published by DM International, P.O. Box 99770 Seattle, WA 98199.
Started in 1993. Published four times a year; 6 issues for $48.00. 8.5"
x 11" glossy magazine format. Comments: Strong Pro Domme
emphasis. Erotic fiction, longer informative articles, rules for slaves,
tales of scenes, clothing and equipment ads, no personal ads, and many
direct contact ads from professional Dominatrixes. Well written
articles and a nice layout. In the summer of 1994, they went to a four
color cover format and will publish only three times a year now.
Emphasis on western U.S. and Canada. [MB]


_Black Leather in Color_
A Leather Magazine for People of Color and Friends. Quarterly
for $20.00. BLIC, P.O. Box 1035, NYC, NY 10116.


_Bondage Tymes_
Ms. Natasha's Bondage Tymes. R&F Enterprises, PO Box
23604, Fort Lauderdale, FL 33307-3604. (305) 537-3058. Each issue
around 50 pages at $10.00. B&W photography, drawings. Sections
include: Lifesytle Dominas, Interviews, Groups and Organizations,
Parties, Clubs, Videos. Emphasis upon bondage, boot and heel
worship, watersports, trampling, and female domination. Lots of full
page ads by pro Dominas, and many personal ads. A very strong
south Florida emphasis.


_Boudoir Noir_
Leather-Fetish-Consensual S&M Magazine. 6 Issues for
$24.00. Box 5, Stn. F, Toronto ON M4Y 2L4.


_Boot Lover's Digest_
Published by Strictly Speaking, PO Box 8006, Palm Springs, CA
92263. Issue #4, 1994. Price: $10 per issue US. A high quality glossy
magazine, color and B&W photos, artwork, sources, interviews, ads
from pro Dommes, and lots of commercial ads. Irregular publication.
Those that love the Female dressed in leather boots and fetish attire
will find gorgeous Women galore in this specialty magazine. [SP]


_Boudoir Noir_
Bimonthly publication. $50.00 per year. Box 5, Stn. F, Toronto
ON M 4Y 2L4.


Brame, Gloria G.
_Different Loving: An Exploration of the World of Sexual
Dominance and Submission_. Gloria G. Brame, William D. Brame,
and Jon Jacobs. New York: Villard Books, Random House, c 1993.
539 pages, bibliography, notes. ISBN: 0-679-40873-8. Price: $25.00
US. Comments: A first rate work! A well organized survey of all the
main dimensions of SM D/s. Informative, accurate, and insightful
commentary. Sound historical observations. An outstanding collection
of interviews with active participants in the scene. Many heterosexual
couples are featured. [MB]


Brantenberg, Gerd
_Egalia's Daughters: A Satire of the Sexes_. Translated from the
Norwegian by Louis Mackay in cooperation with Gerd Brantenberg.
Seattle, Washington, Seal Press, c1985. 269 pp.
Series: (Women in Translation). ISBN: 0931188342. $8.95.
[Silverheart].


Braun, Walter
_Sadismus, Masochismus, Flagellantismus_. Flensburg, 4. Aufl.
1989: Orion. TB, 224 S., DM 24,- . Originally: The Cruel and the
Meek. London 1968: Luxor Press. [Thomas tph]


Cadivec, Edith
Her works were published in both English and German. German
references include: (A) _Bekenntnisse und Erlebnisse_, "Confessions
and Experiences," Privatdruck, Hellerau 1931: Avalun-Verlag, 346 S.
(B) _Eros, der Sinn meines Lebens_, "Eros: The Meaning of My
Life," Privatdruck, Rahnitz-Hellerau 1932: Avalun-Verlag, 322 S.

Walter Braun wrote that *Cadivec worked as a Headmistress of
a Privatschool for Children in Wien, Germany. There she did whip
some children (and her own daughter) for the amusement of some rich
people. In 1924 a judge sentenced her to 6 years in prison.* Translated
from the German by [Thomas tph].


Califia, Pat
"Love and the Perfect Sadist." _Skin Two_, Issue 12, 1992, pp.
42-47.


Califia, Pat
_Macho Sluts_; Erotic Fiction By Pat Califia. Boston, MA,
Alyson Publications, 1988. Introduction, notes, eight stories, 296
pages. The stories include: Jessie, The Finishing School, The Calyx of
Isis, The Hustler, The Surprise Party, The Vampire, The Spoiler, and A
Dash of Vanilla. ISBN: 1-55583-115-X. Price: $9.95 US. Comments:
Steamy SM lesbian erotica by the Best Mistress of the genre. Whow!
First Rate! [MB]


Califia, Pat
_Sapphistry: The Book of Lesbian Sexuality_. Naiad Press,
Tallahassee, Florida, 1988.


Califia, Pat
_Sensuous Magic; SM, Sensuous Magic, A Guide for
Adventurous Couples_. First Richard Kasak Book Edition,
Masquerade Books, Inc., c 1993. 185 pages. Glossary, bibliography,
resource guide. ISBN: 1-56333-131-4. Price: $12.95 US. Also
published in Spanish by Martinez Roca editores [Sal]. Comments: A
very well written introduction to SM D/s for all readers. Useful for
hets. All aspects of technique, role playing, attitude, safety, and
couples play are very carefully presented. Ms. Califia has been an
outstanding spokesperson for the SM Leather culture for decades:
former columnist for "Drummer," former editor of "Sandmutopian
Guardian, " activist, leader in organizations, regular contributor to
_Skin Two_, fiction writer ... And, all of this highly respected talent is
displayed again in "Sensuous Magic." [MB]


_Capitulation_
This monthly newspaper: _Capitulation (A Magazine of Sexual
Surrender)_ is published by Fantastic Books, P.O. Box 34,
Amityville, NY 11701-0034. Publisher: Richard Shore. Editor:
Victoria Reeves. Phone: (516) 753-2677. FAX: (516) 753-2423.
Price: $3.00 single copy, $50.00 one-year subscription, US. Each
13.5" X11" issues is around 40 pages. Comments: Typical newspaper
format Fem Dom - male sub publication; although sub females are
occasionally featured. Shorter articles that are generally well edited.
B&W photos, some illustrations, color cover. Lots of ads from Pro
Dommes. Mistress Jayne Alexander answers letters. One of many
Fantastic Books publications. [MB]


Carter, Angela 1940-
_The Sadeian Woman and the Ideology of Pornography_. New
York, Pantheon Books, 1978. Bibliography, 154 pages. ISBN: 0-394-75893-5. Price: $ 8.95. Comments: This thought provoking polemical
study takes a feminist reading of the Marquis de Sade's work and two
of his important characters: Justine and Juliette. Ms. Carter carefully
explores the relationship of power to sexuality, and the politics of
sexual freedom. [MB]


Cecilione, Michael
_Domination_. Kensington Publishing Corp, Zebra Books, Dept.
4406, Park Ave. South, N.Y., NY 10016. 1993. ISBN: 0-8217-4406-2.
$4.50 U.S.


CF Pulications
CF Publications, Box 706EU, E. Setauket, NY 11733. Phone:
(516) 689-6743, and FAX at (516) 689-6755. Publishers of spanking
erotica, spanking magazines, bibliographies of spanking in novels,
filmographies of spanking in movies, etc.. Over 600 spanking stories
available. Source: Prometheus, Spring 1994. [SP]


Chancer, Lynn S. 1954-
_Sadomasochism In Everyday Life: The Dynamics of Power and
Powerlessness_. New Brunswick, New Jersey, Rutgers University
Press, 1992. Chapter notes and references, index, 238 pages. ISBN:
0-8135-1808-3. Price: 15.00 US. Comments: A detailed discussion
of nonsexual dominance and submission in the workplace, in homes, in
social relations. A brief commentary on sexual SM D/s in our culture.
For advanced D/s readers, and for those with a strong feminist
orientation. [MB]


Cilescu, Valentia
_Mistress Mine_ Published by Masquerade Books, Inc, NY, c
1993. A Rosebud Book. 182 pages. ISBN: 1-56333-109-8. Price:
$4.95 US. [SP]


_Coming to Power_
Edited by members of SAMOIS, a lesbian/feminist S/M
Organization. Coming To Power: Writings and Graphics on Lesbian
S/M. Boston, MA, Alyson Publicaitons, c 1981, Third U.S. editon,
1987. 287 pages. ISBN: 0-932870-28-7. Price: $9.95 US. [SP]


_The Countess in Red_
Adapted by J.M. Lo Duca and Georges Pichard. Based on the
story by Leopold von Sacher-Masoch. Eurotica, an imprint of NBM
Publishing, 185 Madison Ave., Ste. 1504, NY, NY 10016. 46 pages.
ISBN: 1-56163-098-5. Price: $9.95 US. Comments: An adult, comic
book style illustrated version of the sadistic Transylvanian Countess
Erzsebet Bathory who retained her youth and beauty by means of
monthly baths in human blood. Graphic illustrations of sadistic lust,
torture and murder. [MB]


Cowan, Lyn
_Masochism: A Jungian View_. Dallas, Texas, Spring
Publications Inc., 1982, 1985. x, chapter notes and references, 137
pages. ISBN: 0-88214-320-4. Price: $12.00 US. Comments: A very
insightful look into the spiritual and psychological depths of SM. An
excellent analysis of the religous parallels of BDSM practices. One of
our all-time favorites. [MB]


Crepax, Guido
_Venus in Furs_. A graphic novel, illustrated by Guido Crepax.
Adapted from a text by Leopold von Sacher-Masoch. Published by
Catalan Communications, 43 East 19th Street, New York, NY 10003.
64 pages, black and white illustrations. ISBN: 0-87416-091-X. Price:
$ 11.95 US. 64 pages. Comments: Delightful and detailed drawings in
an adult comic book style format. The story line text does not get in
the way of the sumptuous erotic illustrations. Follows the Venus story
loosely from the point Wanda von Dunajew and Severin (Gregor)
arrive in Florence. A book for beginning to advanced SM D/s people.
[MB]


_Cruella_
The Fantasy World of Cruella. The Ultimate Publication
Devoted to Cruel and Evil Bitch-Goddesses in Full Action FD Photo
Stories. Published by R-H Fashions, Rogue-Hagen Publications, PO
Box 122, Debry, DE22, 4XA, England. Glossy 9x11 magazine. Price:
$15.00 US. Comments: Related to _Goddess_ and _Riding Cult_
magazines from R-H. High quality photographs in B&W and some
color. Lots of "Leather, Rubber, PVC, Whips, Spurs, High Heels" and
"Devoted to the Dominant Female." Retail prices range from $12 -
$16. [MB]




Dally, Peter
_The Fantasy Game: How Male and Female Sexual Fantasies
Affect Our Lives_. New York, Stein and Day, 1975. xii, 204 pages,
references, index. [SP]


De Gravelaine, Joel
"The two best books on Lilith? I would say: _La Renaissance
De Lillith_ by Joel de Gravelaine. De Gravelaine is a publishing
directrice for the editor Lafont in Paris. She is also an excellent
astrologer and she has a great collection of historical cutting
instruments. My second choice: _Reflexions sur Lilith_ by Jean
Carteret, writer and astrologer. Least but not last, the artwork about
Lilith by Denyson (a French artist, who worked in the 1940's)." From
Baron d'EST, a eckhart@iprolink.ch, 11/16/95. [MB]



Maria del Rey
_The Institute_, Nexus Books (UK), 1992, ISBN 0352328134.
*The story of a corrective institute for young women run by a group of
extremely dominant Mistresses. Includes enforced feminisation of
males, SM, power play, spanking. One of the UK's top selling femdom
novels. Highly recommended.* [PP]


Maria del Rey
_Obsession_, Nexus Books, 1993, ISBN 0352328533.
*The story of a man who learns to submit to the Mistress he fears and
desires in equal measure. Recommended by Forum Magazine.* [PP]


Maria del Rey
_Heart of Desire_, Nexus Books, 1994, ISBN 0352329009.
*A woman discovers her natural Dominance - and the men who submit
to her. Three editions of the book in 2 years!* [PP]


Maria del Rey
_Sisterhood of The Institute_, Nexus Books, 1994, ISBN
0352329718. *A sequel to The Institute: enforced feminisation in a
correctional institute run exclusively by Dominant females.* [PP]


Maria del Rey
_Dark Desires_, Nexus Books, 1996, ISBN 0352330724.
*Short story collection, includes a number of femdom stories along
with other SM, spanking and fetishist fiction.* [PP]



Dickson, Jim E.
_Ring of Steel, The Diary of a Modern Slave: Part 1_. Eros
Publishing Company, Inc., Wilmington Delaware. Distributed by
MAGCORP, the Magazine Corporation of America, Cleveland Ohio.



_Direct Contact Guide to B&D_
A bimonthly direct contact directory of pro Dommes. Also
includes lots of personals. Published by R&F Enterprises Inc., 3515
NW 10 Avenue, Oakland Park, FL 33309.



_Divinity_
Divine Press, P.O. Box 108, Stockport, Cheshire, SK1 4DD,
England, circa 1993. About $6.00.


_Domina_
Domina: The Corrective/Restrictive Arts Magazine. Fully
illustrated, articles, stories, news and personal ads. From the Fetish
Perv scene in London. 305 Madison Ave., Suite 1166, New York, NY
10165. $25.00 per issue.


_Domina News_
A quarterly newsletter for lifestyle and professional dominant
women. Ideas for marketing and managing an adult business. $20 per
year. 10028 Manchester Road, Suite 214, St. Louis, MO 63122.


_Dominant Domain_
Published by New Esoteric Press, Inc., P.O. Box 30689, JFK
Station, Jamaica, NY 11430. A monthly newspaper. Publisher: Sandy
York. Price: $36.00 US for 12 issues. Comments: Fem Dom - male
sub emphasis. Stories, B&W photos, and lots of commercial ads.
Similar to _Dominant Mystique_. Many ads for expensive videos.
Excellent cover artwork. Many of the stories are poorly written
"letters", and the editing is often low grade. Recent issues show an
improvement in editing and typesetting. [MB]


_Dominant Mystique_
Monthly Newspaper. _Dominant Mystique: The Number One
Female Domination Newspaper in the Nation_. Volumes 1 -13, 1979-1992. Published by the New Esoteric Press Inc., P.O. Box 300689,
JFK Station, Jamaica, New York, 11430. Publisher Sandy York.
Editor: Alison James. Comments: This newspaper emphasizes Female
Dominants and male submissives. It contains B&W photographs,
drawings, short stories and comments by readers, articles by
professional Dominatrixes, classified personal ads, and general ads.
The professional Dominatrixes that have written articles include:
Madame X, Mistress Brigit, Mistress Connie, Mistress LaFleur,
Mistress Verushka, Mistress/Goddess Diana Vesta, and many others.
Many ads for expensive videos. Excellent cover art at times.
Sometimes prone to publishing poorly written "letters" and mediocre
editing; recent issues show a dramatic improvement in this area. Some
of this work is republished in a glossy magazine format under various
titles. [MB]


_Dominant View_
The Dominant View - Devoted to the Dominant Female.
Published by Fantastic Books, PO Box 34, Amityville, NY 11701-0034. Newspaper. Price: $50.00 per year.


_Domination Directory International_
Published by Strictly Speaking Pub. Co., PO Box 8006, Palm
Springs, CA 92263. See also _Boot Lover's Digest_. [MB]


_Domin-a-Trics_
Mistress Artemis Antone and Friends. A CD ROM product.
Over 1,000 fetish SM, B&D GIF images. Source: (818) 879-4840.


_La Domme: A Dominatrix Anthology_
Edited by Claire Baeder. This is a collection
of Spectrum Press dominatrix fiction, including the new novella _The
Iron Lady_ by R. Pruett. This is now available on floppy disk for PC
and Mac. Masquerade Books published a print edition in 1995 for
$5.95. [Karen Olsen, 73774.2733@compuserve.com, Spectrum
Press.]


_Dommission_
Dominance and submission zine for hets. Some personals. For
information write to: Dommission, PO Box 2036, Alexandria, VA,
22301.


Jay Doubleyou
_Alt.Sex.Femdom FAQ_. By Jay Doubleyou at
juu@netcom.com. Date: 7/5/95, Ver 0.5, Fifth Draft, Parts 1 (673
lines) and Part 2 (1187 lines). Detailed information on the FemDom
newsgroup, FemDom organizations, etiquette for A.S.Femdom,
Internet software usage, educational resources, definitions of terms,
current books and magazines, vendors, and other sources. NOTE: This
annotated bibliography, TDiPaOM, was originally inspired by Jay's
original FAQ post on 9/1/94. Jay is to be commended for his excellent
effort, thoroughness, tact, and enthusiasm. Please refer to the asfd
FAQ for Jay's comments on FemDom organizations. Jay has also
conducted surveys of the alt.sex.femdom newgroups readers. [MB]


Draconian Leather by Metz
Whips made by the Master Whip Maker Janet Metz Hayes. For
information write to janet.hayes@mustang.com. Her BBS name is
Draconian Leather 805-634-9805. Address: 2325 Chester Lane #A,
Bakersfield, CA 93304.


Earle, Alice Morse
_Curious Punishments of Bygone Days_. Originally published
in 1896. The illustrations by Frank Hazenplug. Port Townsend,
Washington, Loompanics Unlimited, 1896, 1986. 149 pages. ISBN:
0-915179-53-9.


Easton, Dossie
_The Bottoming Book; Or, How to Get Terrible Things Done To
You By Wonderful People_. By Dossie Easton and Catherine A. Liszt
(Lady Green). Illustrations by Fish. 104 pages. Bibliography. Price:
$11.95 US. Comments: Basic information on being an OK bottom,
enjoying the passions of a bottom, connecting with Tops, playing,
scenes and roles, and spirituality in SM. An openhearted approach to
the bottom's energy and desires. Delightful illustrations by Fish. [MB]



Easton, Dossie
_The Topping Book_. By Dossie Easton and Catherine A. Liszt
(Lady Green). Illustrations by Fish. Greenery Press, 3739 Balboa
Ave., #195, San Francisco, CA 94121. (415) 752-3700. 1995.


_Echoes From the Sanctuary_
Published by Essemian Press, Service of Mankind Church, PO
Box 1335, El Cerrito, CA 94530. Monthly newsletter of the SMC.


The Eclectic Connection
Books, magazines and catalogs. International emphasis. 5350
North Boradway, Suite 163, Chicago IL 60640.


Ehrenreich, Barbara
"The Lust Frontier: From Tupperware to Sadomasochism."
Found in _Remaking Love: The Feminization of Sex_, edited by
Barbara Ehrenreich, New York, Anchor Press/Doubleday, 1986,
p.119-. [MB]


_The English Governess_
The author is anonymous. New York, Masquerade Books, Inc.,
c 1990. 213 pages. ISBN: 1-878320-43-2. Price: $4.95 US. Fiction.
Comments: [MB]


_The English Palace_
America's Premiere B&D/S&M BBS (908)739-1755 80 lines,
13.5 Gigs on-line, 65,000+ Files, Chat, Forums. Full Internet
Connectivity : Telnet to Palace.com, or 199.171.54.2, Nationwide
Local calling numbers.


Erotika Bleu Creations. 545 Eigth Avenue, Ste 401, Dept: Pro1, New
York, NY 10018. BDSM T Shirts.
Eros Comix
Eros Comix, PO Box 25070, Seattle WA 98125-1970.
Publisher of such delightful adult comics as Molly Kiely's _Diary of a
Dominatrix_, Justine Blanco's _Stiletto - Adventures in Discipline_,
and _Submissive Suzanne_, etc.. [MB]


_Esencia S/M_
Ediciones P.L.G., Apartado de Correos 7053, Madrid 28080,
Spain. Spanish language. *It is an interesting magazine because it is
non commercial, made by BDSM lovers for BDSM lovers.* [Sal]


_The Eulenspiegel Society Newsletter_
Published by the Eulenspiegel Society, TES, PO Box 2783, New
York, NY 10163-2783. Phone: (212) 388-7022. TES founded in
1971. Quarterly newsletter. Price: $35.00 per year US. Artwork,
personal ads, club news, local events, resources, commercial ads,
informative short articles. Pan sexual SM D/s. Retitled "Promethus"
in 1994. Outstanding B&W illustrations, graphics, and BDSM
artwork. [MB]


Executive Imports International
Distributor of many Femdom glossy magazines, paperbacks, and
videos. Write for catalog to: Executive Imports Int'l, Suite 1102, 210
Fifth Avenue, New York, NY 10010. They also market some fetish-fashion, TV, crossdresser, and male Dom items. [SP]


Fantastic Books Publications
Fantastic Books, P.O. Box 34, Amityville, NY 11701-0034.
Phone: (516) 753-2677. FAX: (516) 753-2423. They publish and
distribute Fem Dom - male sub publications like _Capitualtion_,
_Leg Tease_, and _Corporal_. They also publish and/or distirbute
dozens of pocket books (Fem subs) and glossy magazines on similiar
themes. They distribute dozens of amateur and pro videos from $29 to
$59. Female and male models. [MB]


_Fantasy Fashion Digest_
Publisher/Editor: David Jackson. Published by Strictly Speaking
Pub. Co., Diversicor, Inc.: Fantasy Fashion Digest, P.O. Box 9500,
Palm Springs, CA 92263. (619) 363-6434. Comments: Started in
1993. Hopes to become a quarterly magazine. Glossy, B&W and
Color photos. Current sources for fetish clothing in rubber, leather,
and other fabrics. [SP]


_Fantasy Island Innovations Catalog_
The Ultimate in Adult Playroom Accessories. Offered by
Fantasy Island Innovations, Inc., 1304 SW 160th Ave., #128, Sunrise,
Florida 33326. 305-452-5988. 800-785-9955. A very nice 52 page
catalog with all the toys and tools the playful or serious BDSM players
will ever need. Leather gear for ladies and gents. [MB]


_The FDMC Society_
Write to this organization at: The FDMC Society, PO Box 3284,
Warminster, PA 18974. Or EMail to: an98268@anon.penet.fi .
Refer to asfd FAQ.


_Female Supremacy_
Tiffany Entertainment, 3333 Veterans Highway, Suite 541,
Ronkonkoma, NY 11779. Monthly newspaper. Price: $35.00 per
year.


_Feminine Illusion_
"Feminine Illusion" is the fourth monthly newspaper published
by Sandy York and New Esoteric Press. *It is like the others in style
and format, but the emphasis is entirely on forced TV.* [Peter G.]


_Femsupremacy Mail List_
Maintained and coordinated by Dee Ann LeBlanc and Robert J.
LeBlanc. To subscribe: femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com.
There is a digest version of the Femsupremacy list, which can be
subscribed to via the usual methods, by emailing to:
femsupremacy-digest-request@renaissoft.com. For other information
write to: rjl@renaissoft.com. The LeBlanc's provide an archive service
which inludes news articles, informative articles, fiction, resource
guides, and biographies. They have also had their books published,
e.g., Eudora. [SP]


_The FEMINA Society_
The FEMINA Society, Ms. Charlene Deering, P.O. Box 382,
Augusta, ME 04330, USA. Ms. Deering is starting a lifestyle femdom
forum on the BBS Dark Chateau (darkchat.com). My information
came from Patty at pooch@palace.com. The FEMINA Society offers a
wide array of essays, pamphlets, books, conferences, newsletters,
bibliographies, and instructional materials for Female Dominas and
male submissives enrolled in their formal educational program, the
FEMINA Society School. Communication formats include hard copy
print, electronic formats, email, and audiotapes. The FEMINA Society
espouses a complex Doctrine of Female Supremacy, Matriarchial
values and leadership, Goddess worship (Tantric, Wicca, Stone-Bronze
Age, New Age), total male subservience to Dominas, anti-patriarchal
theory and history, and general Womens' Movement topics. The
Society provides networking, education, training, and research
functions. A strong emphasis is given to training the male to be
respectful, submissive, obedient, and totally devoted to serving a
Superior Domina in daily life. Little emphasis given to "male" SM
B&D fantasies and kinky role-playing. Substantial training and support
for married couples wanting to make worshipping and serving the
Superior Female the top priority. Their Female Supremacy political
tenets and historical viewpoints were often a controversial flamewar
topic on alt.sex.femdom in 1994; and, even [MB] and [SP] don't agree
about this important group. [SP]


Ferstman, Carla
_The Castration of Oedipus: Psychoanalysis, Postmodernism,
and Feminism_. By Carla Ferstman and J.C. Smith. New York
University Press, c 1995.


_Fetish Factory_
Retail store specializing in Latex Clothing and Fetish
Accessories. 821 N. Federal Highway, Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33304.
(305) 462-0032.


_Fetish Factory_
Alternative lifestyles from around the world: contact magazines,
fetish novels and novelettes, fetish magazines, adult newspapers,
shopper's guides, and adult merchandise catalog. Dominant
Publications, 601-1755 Robson St., Vancouver BC V 6G 3B7.


_Fetish Times_
A magazine that regularly publishes femdom fiction and features.
Address: Fetish Times, BCM Box 9253, London,
WC1N 3XX. Web page is at: http://www.erotica.co.uk/ft/ft001.htm.
The Reviews Editor, Pan Pantziarka [PP], can be reached by email at
pan@cix.compulink.co.uk.


_Fetish World_
Published by New Esoteric Press, P.O. Box 30689, JFK Station,
Jamaica, NY 11430. A monthly newspaper. Editor: Sandy York.
Price: $36.00 for 12 issues US. Comments: Similar to _Dominant
Mystique_. A slightly wider emphasis including more cross dressing,
infantilism, and foot worship. [MB]


_Finding Your Dominant Woman_
Mentor Publications, Diversified Services, PO Box 35737,
Brington, MA 02135. 19 pages. Author John Warren. Price: $5.00
US. [MB]


Flanagan, Bob
_Bob Flanagan: Supermasochist_. San Francisco, Re/Search
Publications, c 1993. 125 B&W photos and illustrations, 128 pages.
ISBN: 0-940642-25-5. Price: $ 15.00 US. Comments: Bob and his
Dominant Wife, Mistress Sheree Rose, tell their story. Includes
interviews, artwork, poetry, and many photographs of serious SM
scenes. Mistress Sheree took all the very graphic documentary
photographs used in this book. Their unique loving D/s relationship,
Bob's sexual-spiritual transformation within the drama of his very poor
health, and their SM artistic creativity make for a memorable book. A
book for advanced SM D/s players. Sheree Rose was also interviewed
by Andrea Juno in the book "Modern Primitives" (RESearch Pubs., c
1989), pp. 109-113. A (9/94) post to A.S.B cited an upcoming art
exhibit in New York by Bob Flanagan. Unfortunately, Bob died on
1/4/96 in Los Angeles. He was 43 when he died of cystic fybrosis.
[SP]


Flint, David
"Hollywood Babylon." _Skin Two_, Issue 16, 1995, pp. 52-59.


Francis R. [FR]
Francis sends me [MB] brief notes on Fem Dom BDSM sources
in classical, medieval and modern literature. He would be a very good
resource person on this topic. He can be reached by email:
an60355@anon.penet.fi. I have included references to his sources in
the subject index under [FR]. Examples of his work:

Lautreamont's "Les Chants de Maldoror", fourth Chant,
third Strophe: for having refused to conjoin with his
mother, a man is hung by his hair for three days, then
tarred and beaten with leaden whips by her and by his
wife.


French, Sara H.
_Master of Timberland_. (1992) _Return to Timeberland_.
(1995) Masquerade, $5.95 each.


Friday, Nancy
_Women on Top_. Simon and Schuster, Pocket Books, NY, c
1993. ISBN: 0-671-64845-4. Price: $5.99 US. A bestseller with
surprisingly graphic "fantasies."


_La Fuente de Jade_
A collection of erotic literature (published by Alcor) with
femdom titles: El Nido de la Oropendola, La Institutriz inglesa,
Eveline. [Sal]


_Future Sex_
Future Sex Magazine, P.O. Box 31129, San Francisco, CA
94131-9935. 4 issues for $18.00. Comments: A cutting edge
magazine on a wide variety of sex topics. Editor: Lisa Palac. Lots of
reviews of videos, books, CDs, software, zines. News and
information. Internet notes. Wonderful photographs, artwork, and
layout. [SP]


Gamman, Lorraine
_Female Fetishism_. By Lorraine Gamman and Merja
Makinen. Lawrence & Wishart, circa 1993. Comments: Examines all
the popular theories about fetishism.


_Get Kinky_
A bimonthly kinky magazine from Modern Products, 1007
Murfreesboro Rd., Ste. 115-155 Nashville, TN 37217-1516. 6 issues
for $29.95. Includes fiction, personals, clubs, artwork, and
instructional materials.


Godek, Gregory J. P.
_1,001 Ways to Be Romantic_. A handbook for men, and a
Godsend to Women. Weymouth, MA, Casablanca Press, Inc., c 1993.
270 pages. ISBN: 0-9629803-0-7. Price: $11.95 US. Comments:
Practical suggestions, ideas, techniques, and tips for making romance
blossom and bloom in the lives of lovers. Special emphasis on helping
men become more attentive, considerate, and creative in displaying
their appreciation for the Lady in their life; althought nearly all the
ideas could also work the other way. The author has also written
_1,001 More Ways to Be Romantic_. [MB]


Good Vibrations Mail Order Catalogs
The Good Vibrations mail order catalogs feature vibrators,
harnesses, dildos, light SM equipment, books, videos, and related sex
aids and toys. The Sexuality Library catalog features many fiction and
nonfiction items. They also publish accurate sex information as the
Down There Press. Order from: Open Enterprises, Inc., Good
Vibrations Mail Order, 938 Howard Street, Ste. 101, San Francisco,
CA 94103. Phone: 1-800-289-8423 or (415) 974-8990. Founded in
1977. A cooperative founded and largely run by women. [MB]


_Goddess_
Published by R-H Fashions, Rogue-Hagen Publications, PO Box
122, Debry, DE22, 4XA, England. Glossy 9x11 magazine.
Comments: Related to _Riding Cult_ and _Cruella_ from R_H; and
these three share the same models. [MB]


_The Governess_
The Journal of the Alice Kerr-Southerland Society. Irregular.
Issue 6, Summer 1994. 64 pages. Short articles, letters, illustrations,
b&w photos, and some commercial ads. 6"x8.5". Comments:
Demanding and confident Women administer corporal punishment to
boys, girls and men. To join the AK-S Society write: The Hon. Sec.,
The A.K.S.S., Box 12, Hastings, East Sussex, England. [SP]


Greene, Caroline
_S-M: The Last Taboo_. By Caroline and Gerald Green. New
York, Ballantine Books, 1974, 1978. First published by Grove Press,
Inc., 1974. ISBN: 0-345-27160-2. 345 pages. Includes some poetry
and fiction, e.g., Harriett Marwood, Governess, in the appendices of
the book. Makes extensive efforts to distinguish between consensual
SM and violent criminal sadism. A strong British emphasis. A
landmark work. [MB]


_Greenery_
Lady Green's Newsletter for Women and Men Exploring Female
Domination. Lady Green, 3739 Balboa Avenue #195, San Francisco,
CA 94121. Quarterly newsletter. Price: $8.00 per year US.


Greta X
_There's a Whip In My Valise_, Delectus Books, 1996, ISBN
1897767129. *A reprint of an Olympia Press original. The story of
how one man comes to suffer the cruel domination of six Mistresses!*
[PP].



Griffon, Aarona
_Passage and Other Stories_. Rosebud, reprinted 1994, $4.95.


_Hair To Stay_
The magazine for people who love natural, hairy women.
Winter Publishing, PO Box 80667, So. Dartmouth, 02748.


Heartwood, Janet
Heartwood Whips of Passion _Whip Catalog_. 412 N. Coast
Highway #210, Laguna Beach, CA 92651. (714) 376-9558.
Outstanding quality whips, cats, floggers, flat braids.


Henkin, William
"Erotic Power Play." By William A. Henkin and Sybil Holiday.
_Sandmutopia Guardian_, Part I in Issue Nine, 1991, pp. 9-12; Part II
in Issue Ten, 1992, pp. 5-10.

iii


_In Step_
A monthly newspaper for those who love to worship the Female
foot. Published by Tri D Enterprises, DBA IN STEP, P.O. Box 386,
Walnut, California, 91788. Volume 4, Issue #8, out in August, 1994.
Price: $32.00 Annual US. Comments: Billed as the "Foot Lovers
Dream." Stories about trampling, crushing, tickling, and foot worship
galore. Includes photos, ads, and personals. [MB]


Jaffe, Deborah
_MSR: Master/Slave Relationship Audio Recordings_.
Available from P.O. Box 191211, San Francisco, CA 94119-1211.
Deborah Jaffe continues to produce music combining synthesizers,
drums, and vocals. Her themes include lust, S/M, bondage, evil,
anarchy, and violence. Her many titles include: Bed of Perverse
Dreams, Being Led Around by the Tongue, Blue Faced Lust, Captive
Heart, The Love of a Saint (Darkness), Soundtrack to Black Leather
Bondage, Throwing It to the Wind, and others. She has a new
interactive fetish CD called "Smut Picture Racket." She has a web
page now. [SP]



Jellinghaus, Rob
_Alt.Sex.Bondage FAQ_. Edited by robj@unreal.com. The
alt.sex.bondage FAQ is posted around the 11th of month. It consists
of 3 Parts: Pt. 1 - 1337 lines, Pt. 2 - 953 lines, Pt. 3 - 1105 lines. From:
robj@unreal.com Rob Jellinghaus). Date: 11/14/94. Last revised on
9/11/94. This document can be found at at number of locations on the
Net. Rob suggests: http: www.unreal.com/adult/asb/faq.htm. You can
also get to Rob at http://www.best.com/~robj. [MB]


JK Personal Products
PO Box 13383, Scottsdale, AZ 85267-3383. All the products
that adult babies need.


Kelly, Minx
_Vatican Revue #001_. A 29K bibliography with some
annotations and many brief blurbs for lots of BDSM fiction titles.
Female and male Dom titles reviewed. Prepared 11/1/93. Found in
gopher tpe.ncm.com.


Kerr-Sutherland, Alice (1870-1939)
_A Guide to the Correction of Young Gentlemen_. By A Lady,
most probably Alice Kerr-Sutherland. Subtitle: The Successful
Administration of Physical Discipline to Males, by Females. With
illustrations by a former pupil, probably Gerald Hamer - the original
publisher. Reprinted from the original Private Edition of 1924.
London, Delectus Books, c 1994. 113 pages. Price: $34.95 US.
ISBN: 1897767 05 6. Comments: See the entry under "The
Governess" for information about the Alice Kerr-Sutherland Society.
A sophisticated guide to the stylish art of Dominant Women
disciplining boys and gentlemen. Lots of rules for the good and proper
behavior of sumbissive boys. Rituals and techinques for effective
corporal punishment. The role of Aphrodite Philomastirx, Our Lady of
the Scourge, as Nurse, Mistress and Dame. In the delightful, urbane,
British style. [SP]


_Kinky People, Places and Things_
A magazine published six times a year by DM International,
P.O. Box 99770, Seattle, WA 98199 USA. Comments: Contains
B&W photos, drawings, short informative articles, organization
listings, reviews, S/M news, ads, and a very larger number of personal
ads for contacts. Emphasis upon northwestern USA and Canada. Lots
of Femme Dom. See also "Bitches With Whips." [SP]


Klaw, Irving
According to Fritz Peronius (11/5/95), you can obtain
photographs and videos of a few films by Irving Klaw from Movie Star
News, 134 W. 18th Street, NY, NY 10011; 1-800-555-1212. Lots of
1950's bondage photos, e.g., Betty Page posing as a FemDom Top,
among others.


Kossmann, Alfred
_Leopold von Sacher-Masoch, Martyr For a Day-Dream_.
[Publication details uncertain. 1959. The only solid reference I have is
in Dutch: "Martelaar voor een dagdroom: over leven en werk van
Leopold von Sacher-Masoch", Amsterdam, Querido, 1970.]
Comments: extensive bibliographical and biographical study on
Sacher-Masoch. [FR]


Kroll, Eric
_Fetish Girls_. Hardbound artbook. 200 pages with half in
color. Price: $25.00 US. Source: Lucifer's Armory, 874 Broadway,
Suite 808, New York, NY 10003.


Lady Green
_The Sexually Dominant Woman: A Workbook For Nervous
Beginners_. By Lady Green, 1992. Available from Lady Green, 3739
Balboa Avenue #195, San Francisco, CA 94121. Paperbound, 57
pages. Comments: A tender hearted introduction to playful SM loving
for hets. Informative introduction for beginning Fem Dommes. Lady
Green is an outstanding and regular contributor to alt.sex.femdon and
other newsgroups. [MB]


Lady Laura
Artwork and portraits to your specs. P.O. Box 117, Runnemede,
NJ 08078. Sub4Rusty@aol.com.


Lady Tanith
_A Tangled Web: The Art of Slavery_. A Training Manual for
Mistresses, Masters and slaves. Version 1.1. From Lady Tanith, P.O.
Box 7925, Berkeley, CA 94707-0925. (415) 234-7887. Contains a
section on S&M Resources, pp. 23-32. Spiral bound manuscript of 32
pages. Lady Tanith has also published _S/M: A Player's Handbook_,
and _Fantascenes_. [MB]


_LBW Magazine_
LBW (Leather, Bondage & Whips) Magazine. Fact, Fiction and
Fantasy in support of the Female-Dominant Lifestyle. 3140-B West
Tighman St. #139, Allentown, PA 18104. Editrix: Mistress Lisa;
Associate: Mistress Sophia; Design: Andreas Mann. Internet:
lbwl@aol.com. Published quarterly, $25.00 per year. Comments:
Includes interviews, short articles, stories, reviews of books and films,
quality B&W photos and graphics, nice layout, news about events and
resources, tips on Internet options, personal ads, commercial ads, and
BBS information. Associated with Popular Emotion BBS 215-386-9333. East Coast emphasis. A nice blend of perspectives from some
sophisticated BDSM enthusiasts dedicated to Female Dominance.
[MB]


_Leatherfolk: Radical Sex, People, Politics, and Practice_.
Edited by Mark Thompson. Alyson Publications, Inc., 40
Plympton Street, Boston, MA., 1991. B&W photographs,
bibliography, xx, 328 pages. Contains short biographies of the
contributors. ISBN: 1-55583-187-7. [SP]


_Leather Links_
Leather Links - Celebrating the Dominant Female. Monthly
newspaper. Price: $25.00 per year. Published by B&D Pleasures, Bill
and Debbie Majors Enterprises, PO Box 92889, Long Beach, CA
90809-2889. B&D Majors Enterprises offers a confidential photo lab
service. They can be reached at (310) 631-1600; or via the Internet at
bill.majors@hedonism.com.


Leda Productions
Leda female dominant videos. Leda Productions, PO Box 632,
San Marcos, CA 92079-0632. Phone: (619) 630-0737. Two dozen or
more video titles that feature women in a variety of clothing and
settings who are into spanking, face slapping, caning, strapping, and
otherwise dominating masochistic men. Some real hard core spanking
and whipping scenes. Price range: $69-$99. Also connected with Nu-West/Leda, PO Box 35, San Marcos, CA 92079; in distributing and
producing catalogs, pamphlets, audiotapes, and titles such as _Ma'am_
and _International Discipline Review_ magazines. [SP]


Le Fel, Marie-France
_Petit Dictionnaire historique et pratique de la domination et du
sadisme des femmes_. Paris, Robert Laffont, 1981. 280 pages. ISBN
2-221-00703-4. Comments: Encyclopedic dictionary of historical
antecedents and legends involving feminine domination and cruelty.
[FR]


_Leg Show_
Leg Show is published by the Mavety Media Group,Ltd, 462
Broadway, 4th Floor, New York, NY 10013. It is sold on many news
stands nationally. *Is rather soft porn, but totally dedicated to Female
domination of the male via seduction and coerced/controlled
masturbation.* [Peter G.]


_The Lesbian S/M Safety Manual_.
Edited by Pat Califia. Lace Publications, an imprint of Alyson
Publications, Boston, MA, 1988. 76 pages. ISBN: 1-55583-301-2.
Price: $ 10.00 US. Comments: [MB]


Love, Brenda
_The Encyclopedia of Unusual Sex Practices_. Fort Lee, New
Jersey, Barricade Books, Inc., 1992. 150 B&W illustrations, 750
entries, bibliography (pp. 317-326), index, glossary, list of suppliers,
336 pages. ISBN: 0-942637-64-X. Price: $ 29.95 US. Now available
in paperback. Comments: A first rate reference work. Very good
cross references and source documentation. Basic information about
just about every type of obscure and creative sex play. [MB]


_Love's Illusion_.
The author is anonymous. Published by Masquerade Books,
New York, c 1989. 202 pages. ISBN: 1-56333-100-4. Price: $4.95
US. Comments: [MB].


Luther, Jeanette
_Tied Up With Love: The Making of Mistress Antoinette_.
Available from Versatile Fashions, PO Box 1051, Tustin CA 92681.
131 pages. Price: $14.95 US.


_Ma'am_
Published by London Enterprises Limited and distributed by
Lyndon Distributors Limited, 15756 Arminta Street, Van Nuys, CA
91406. Irregular publication. Female Dominance of submissive males.
Lots of spanking and caning by conventionally dressed Ladies. Issue
#6 dated December, 1992. Available from Shadow Lane, and Nu-West/Leda. [MB]


Malatesta, Louise
_The Queen of the Grove, and Other Tales_ Illustrations by
Sardax. London, Chardmore Press, Tim Woodward Pub., LTD, c
1993. Short stories and poems about the disciplinary role of the
Female as wife, mother, stepmother, schoolmistress, governess,
nannies, etc.. Studies of the English "Disciplinary Woman" with whip
or cane in hand. 155 pages. ISBN: 0-9518268-3-2. Price: ? US.
Printed in Great Britain. Comments: [MB]


Marcus, Maria
_A Taste For Pain: On Masochism and Female Sexuality_
Translated from the Danish by Joan Tate. New York, St. Martin's
Press, 1981. 267 pages. ISBN: 0-312-78619-0. Comments: A quasi
autobiographical study of the feelings, thoughts, and lifestyle issues
facing a masochistic woman who is also a serious feminist. Set in the
European scene. [SP]


_Masochism_
New York, Zone Books, 1991. 293 pages. ISBN: 0-942299-55-8. Translated by Jean McNeil. Contains "Coldness and Cruelty"
by Gilles Deleuze, and the complete text of the work "Venus in Furs"
by Leopold von Sacher-Masoch. Price: $ 13.50 US. Comments: The
paper, printing, and cover of this book are outstanding. Our favorite
version of The Venus, "Venus im Pelz, 1870." The very sophisticated
and insightful essay by Gilles Deleuze that will be difficult reading for
most. [MB]


McClintock, Anne
"Maid to Order." _Skin Two_, Issue 14, 1993, pp. 70-77.
Includes short bibliography. Provides an analysis of SM and gender
powers, abridged from _Dirty Looks_, and insightfully handles the
topics of SM and sexology, the domestic slave, the dirt fetish, the
policing of SM, the right to punish, and SM as a Theatre of Risk. [SP]


_Men Under Control_
A bimonthly periodical. Published by CF Publications, Box
706EU, E. Setauket, NY 11733. A six issue subscription for $60, and
single issues for $12.50. A periodical dedicated to dominant women
and the men they spank. [SP]


Miller, Philip
_Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns: The Romance and
Sexual Sorcery of Sadomasochism_. By Philip Miller and Molly
Devon. Mystic Rose Books, c 1995, Dept L., P.O. Box 1036/SMS,
Fairfied, CT 06432. $28.70, 271 pages, 225 photos and illustrations.
Both writers are experienced BDSM players. Safety, fun,
relationships, fantasy and game playing, explanations, resources,
techniques .... [SP]


_Mistress 4U_
Stories, photos, personal ads. PRO-MO, PO Box 7007,
Phillipsburg, NJ 08865.


Mistress Blanca and Peter
_Pointer to Sex Info on the Net_ (PtSIotN) Prepared by
Mistress Blanca and Peter (Green Way) at viaverde@ix.netcom.com.
Version 4.8, 5/1/96, 90K, c 1994-1996. A detailed subject index and
title list of **sexually oriented** (SexO) newsgroups, mail lists, IRCs,
FAQs, some WWW Pages, Gophers, archives, BBSes, resource
guides, bibliographies, sources and tools on or about SexO on the
Internet. Updated and posted to alt.sex on the 1st of each month.
Moderator approved (2/12/95) for posting to news.answers and
alt.answers. This file (PtSIotN) is located for downloading at many
places on the Net; try: http://www.viaverde.com/sex/. [MB]


Mistress Blanca and Peter
_Subject Index to Sex Info on the Net_. Prepared by Mistress
Blanca and Peter (Green Way) at viaverde@netcom.com. Version 4.8,
5/1/96, c 1996. This document consists of Section 3 of _Pointer to Sex
Info on the Net_. It is a detailed subject index to the **sexually
oriented** (SexO) newsgroups, mail lists, IRCs, gophers, some FTP
sites, archives and selected WWW Pages on or about SexO
information on the Internet. Updated and posted to
alt.sex.erotica.marketplace on the 12 and 24th of each month. We are
developing html versions of this document, to be distributed by email
or a mail list. This file is available for downloading at many places on
the Internet; try http://www.viaverde.com/sex/. [MB]


Mistress Clare
Write to Ms. C, Box 15, Station A, Etobicoke, ONT M9C2V3
Canada. She has a collection of erotic writings in her Strictly Stories
Catalog. She also publishes the newsletter _subCULTURE_. Rather
expensive, but well written stories. Her long story `The Swiss
Finishing School' ran in four "Bitches With Whips" issues recently
93/94. [SP]


Mistress Cybelle
"Professional Dominance: Thoughts for Female Dominants (and
their clients)." from _Sandmutopia Guardian_, Issue 13, pp 6-10.


Mistress Jacqueline
_Whips and Kisses: Parting the Leather Curtain_ As told to C.
Tavel and R.H. Rimmer. Prometheus Books, c 1991. ISBN: 0-87975-656-X. 237 pages. Comments: A housewife turned professional
Dominatrix tells her story of SM encounters. [SP]


Mistress Leah LaFleur
Miscellaneous Writings. Short essays were readily available by
mail from the professional Dominatrix Leah LaFleur in 1993. Write to
Ms. Leah LaFleur, 2005 Palo Verde Ave. Ste. #214, Long Beach, CA
90815-3399. Mistress La Fleur offers manuscripts, audiotapes, and
videocassettes. [SP]


Mistress Leah LaFleur
_Houseboy_. A lazy chauvinist pig is transformed into an
odedient slave and lap dog by a domineering Lady in Command.
Inludes some photos and artwork.


Mistress Nan
_My Private Life: Real Experiences of a Dominant Woman_.
Written by Mistress Nan (tirant@aol.com). Daedalus Publishing Co.,
584 Castro Street, Suite 518, San Francisco CA 94114, c 1995.
$14.95 paperback in U.S.A.. 196 pages. ISBN: 1-881943-11-9.
Foreward by Race Bannon. Edited by Joseph Bean. Mistress Nan has
also made tapes for Shadow Lane. Erotic stories based on a few of the
many real life experiences and many erotic BDSM sessions of Mistress
Nan, alone or with other Tops. Mistress Nin dominates both
submissives and masochists, both male and female. She has a hearty
appetite for the unique and powerfully sensual. Very nicely written
scenes that are sure to provide excellent examples of this Dominant
Woman's keen style and insight as well as arouse even jaded readers.
Mistress Nan also tells about her own background, her own coming out
into BDSM, her husband's long term interest in the subject, and her
own excitement and interests in BDSM. Mistress Nan seems to
stylishly combine professional, family, social and sensual lives to live
life to the fullest. The most erotic nonfiction title from the Daedalus
Publishing Company. We liked reading the Top's point of view, and
the bisexual orientation and tales of adventure. [SP]


Mistress Sandy
Various video's featuring Female Dominants spanking, teasing,
humiliating, disciplining, and bedding bad boys. Send for information:
Mistress Sandy, 2219 Thousand Oaks Blvd., #149, Thousand Oaks,
CA 91362.


_Mrs. Silk_
*Mrs. Silk is a magazine published in the UK based upon
FemDom and training of the TV maid. Glossy, polished, but
expensive ($20.00). Address: http://www.gpld.net:80/users/av73.
Or e-mail: Silk@cityscape.co.uk.* [Peter G.]


Nash, Elizabeth
_Plaisirs d'Amour: An Erotic Guide to the Senses_. San
Franscisco, Harper, Harper Collins Publishers, c 1995. First Edition,
192 pages. Over 200 high quality illustrations. $20.00 U.S.. ISBN: 0-06-251149-1. Comments: About erotic sensuality and not about
BDSM; but BDSM is another an erotic sensuality style. [SP]


Nu-West/Leda Productions
PO Box 35, San Marcos, CA 92079. Producers and distributors
of Fem Dom spanking and fetish videos, audiotapes, magazines, and
catalogs. See Leda Productions. [MB]


_O_
Similar to _Skin Two_. Publication discontinued in 1993 due to
financial and other problems of Peter Czernich and Petra Roth. High
quality BDSM/fetish art magazine.


Oakgrove, Artemis
_The Raging Peace, Dreams of Vengeance, and Throne of
Council_. Boston: Lace/Alyson Publications, c 1984.


Olympia Publishing
(UK) Ltd., 36 Union Street, Ryde, Isle of Wight, PO33 2LE,
UK.


_Orb & Scepter_
Write to this organization at: Orb & Scepter, 252 Convention
Center Dr., Suite 483, Las Vegas, NV 89102. Phone: (702) 251-7201
(24-hour recorded information). The Queen and Her devoted princes
will show the pathway to Women and men seeking to right the wrongs
of the patriarchal disorders. Actually, quite romantic and powerful!
[MB]


_Our Girls_
A crossdressers magazine by Mistress Lisa and Bobbi. Bobbi
Swan, bobbiswan@aol.com. *Changed name to "My Way" in 1995,
per Peter G. A noncommercial zine.


Paglia, Camille
_Sexual Personae: Art and Decadence From Nefertiti To Emily
Dickinson_. Vintage Books, Random House, Reprint of Yale
University Press book, 1990. xiv, 718 pages, index, notes. ISBN: 0-679-73579-8. [MB]


_Passion: Our Leather Soul_
Glossy FemDom magazine with articles, stories, and photos
(color and B&W). Published by Mistress Diamond at DIAMOND,
8280 James Ave., Ste. 54A, Woodridge, IL, 60517. [MB]



_The Petticoat Dominant_
Anonymous. Delectus Books, 1994, ISBN 1897767021.
* A young English aristocrat is brought swiftly to heel by a young
French governess. Another Delectus reprint of a Victorian
original.* [PP]


Pharaoh Publishing
Goddes or Domina videotape series. Pharaoh Publishing, P.O.
Box 20 Hengoed, CF8 7YB (UK).


_Pleasure and Danger: Exploring Female Sexuality_.
Edited by Carole S. Vance. London, Routledge & Kegan Paul,
1984.


Polhemus, Ted
_Rituals of Love: Sexual Experiments, Erotic Possibilities_.
Essays by Ted Polhemus; interviews and photographs by Housk
Randall. London, Picador, 1995, $25.95. Essays, interviews, and
photographs of people in the S/M scene in London. [SP]


_The Powers of Desire: The Politics of Sexuality_.
Edited by Ann Snitow, Christine Stansell and Sharon Thompson.
New York, Monthly Review Press, 1983.


Prezwalski, Jim
_The Kiss of the Whip: Explorations in S/M_. Leyland, c 1995,
$15.95.


Princess Sheeba
_The Dream Land Series_. Stylish erotic drawings on cards.
Order from Princess Sheeba, P.O. Box 664, Beaconsfield, P.Q.,
Canada H9W 5V3. Set of 12 cards: 2 cards of either 6 Dom or 6 sub
women, $25.00. Princess Sheeba is a fashion designer and a
successful artist and craftsperson while active in the scene. Her
articles appear in a variety of BDSM publications.


_QSM Newsletter_
P.O. Box 882242, San Francisco, CA 94188. For information
call Karen Mendelsohn, (415) 550-7776. One newsletter provides
information on classes, workshops, and seminars offered by QSM on
radical sexuality in the San Francisco area. The second newsletter
provides information about books, magazines, and sources for services
and information. They produce an *outstanding* 16 page mail order
BDSM catalog, and offer a very good mail order service. [SP]


"Redemption Videos"
A collection of Sado-Vampiric classics distributed by Ritual
World, 298 Brewer Street, London W1R 3FE. Titles include: Venus in
Furs, La Vampire Nue, Succubus, Valerie, etc..


_Riding Cult_
Published by R-H Fashions, Rogue-Hagen Publications, PO Box
122, Debry, DE22, 4XA, England. Glossy 9x11 magazine.
Comments: Lots of beautiful women on horseback in fetish attire as
the cover crows: Leather, Rubber, PVC, Whips, Spurs, High Heels ...
Devoted to the Dominant Female. A Cruella Fantasy Special. Related
to _Goddess_ and _Cruella_ from R_H; and these three share some the
same models. Retail from $12-$16. A naked guy on all fours or a
huge horse, and a Properly Clad and Booted Lady with whip in Hand
that Needs a Ride .... Giddyup! County British Fetish fun Perv! [SP]


_Ritual_
Ritual magazine, 29 Brewer Street, Soho, London W1 3FE.
Irregular. $20.00 per issue. 8.5"x11.5". Glossy magazine, color and
b&w photos, comics, photos of London Perv scene participants,
reviews, extensive commercial ads, creative artwork and layout, and a
few short articles. Primarily a high end fetish art magazine. Another in
the Skin Two or O vein. [SP]


_The Romance of Chastisement_
Facsimile edition published by Delectus Books, London,
England, c1993. "The Romance of Chastisement or, Revelations of
School and Bedroom, by an Expert." ISBN: 1-897767-15-3. 150
pages. Hardcover, $34.95 US. A reprint of a 1876 collection of short
stories, poetry, and high praises to the art of flagellation in the bedroom
and schoolroom. Swinburne would have cheered these revelations and
romantic visions of the delights of the birch rod. For those
intermediate and advanced SM people that enjoy the Mid-Victorian
style. [MB]


Rampling, Ann
_Exit to Eden_. This book was written by Anne Rice.
Dell Publishing/Bantam Doubleday Dell Pub. Group, NY, c 1985. 308
pages. ISBN: 0-440-12392-5. Price: $5.99 US. Comments: Released
as a motion picture in 10/94, directed by Garry Marshall.


_Roses With Thorns_
Quarterly FemDom Zine. P.O. Box 40018, Sarasota, FL 34242-0018.


Rossi, William A.
_The Sex Life of the Foot and Shoe_. Malabar, FL, Krieger
Publishing Company, 1993 (Reprint). 265 pages. ISBN
0-89464-573-0.


Ryder, Deborah
_Half Dressed, She Obeyed_. Divine Press, P.O. Box 108,
Stockport, Cheshire, SK1 4DD, England, 1993. Illustrations by Trevor
Brown.


_S&M/B&D Directory_
Prepared by Kathy Tobey, PO Box 86283, Portland, OR 97286.
400 pages with 6,000 listings. $10 for 3.5" disk.


Sacher-Masoch, Leopold, Ritter von, 1836-1895
_Venus in Furs_. Venus in Furs, a novel; includes letters of
Leopold Von Sacher-Masoch and Emilie Mataja. Translated from the
German by Uwe Moeller and Laura Lindgren. Forward By Sylvere
Lotringer. New York, Blast Books, c 1989. 210 pages. ISBN: 0-922233-01-2. Price: $9.95 U.S. Comments: Refer also to the title
"Masochism." Sacher-Mashoch: born 1/27/1836, died 3/9/1895. [SP]


Sacher-Masoch, Wanda von
_The Confessions of Wanda von Sacher-Masoch_. By the wife
of Leopold von Sacher-Masoch. The first English translation by
Marian Phillips, Caroline Hebert, and V. Vale. RESearch Publications,
San Francisco, c 1990. 126 pages. ISBN: 0-940642-23-9. Price:
$13.99 US. Revised, expanded, annotated, and illustrated edition.
Comments: Wanda portrays Leopold as selfish, obsessed, insatiably
masochistic, and unstable; and, herself, as a woman trapped in an
unsatisfactory marriage, forced into a Top's role, and ever protective of
her children. Their frequent periods of poverty, along with Wanda's
being forced into endless sexual intrigues due to her husband's
compulsion to be cuckolded create unsurmountable problems for their
marriage. [MB]


_S.A.D.E._
I.P.R., Escornalbou 6, 08.041 Barcelona, Spain. Spanish
language. *Without any doubt is the best femdom magazine published
in Spain.
Each monthly issue has a contribution of Domina Zara, Spain's most
famous Mistress. SADE has also a club in Barcelona.* [Sal]


Salmansohn, Karen
_How To Make Your Man Behave in 21 Days Or Less, Using
The Secrets Of Professional Dog Trainers_. Workman Publishing, c
1994. 93 pages. ISBN 1-56305-626-7. Price: $8.95 US. Comments:
Funny, but true. Understand his doglike behavior patterns and his
breed type, then treat him like a dog, and make him behave! Finally,
some humorous D/s. Delightful illustrations of man as dog at the feet
of his Mistress. So, "Peter, Come!, Sit!, now Go! Fetch! me another
bourbon and seven. Good boy!" [MB]


_The SandMUtopia Guardian_
The Sandmutopia Guardian & Dungeon Journal. A quarterly
magazine, Published by: The Utopia Network, P.O. Box 1146, New
York, New York 10156, (516) 842-1711 and FAX (516) 842-7518,
Internet siradam@ix.netcom.com. In 1995, Mitch Kessler and Gerrie
Blum took over this publication. Black and white photographs, essays,
informative articles, interviews, ads, classified ads, drawings, resource
guides, bibliographies, and illustrations. Pan-sexual SM D/s emphasis.
Formerly (pre 1995) published by Desmodus, Inc., San Fransicso, CA.
Former publisher Anthony F. DeBlase aka Fledermaus. Managing
editor Fledermaus, Joseph W. Bean. Editor Carol Truscott. In
October, 1992 the new publisher is Martijn Bakker; and the new editor
is Victoria Baker. In 1994, the editor was Pat Califia. The famous
older brother gay SM publication of the SG is "Dungeon Master."
[MB]


Schad-Somers, Suzanne
_Sadomasochism: Etiology and Treatment_. New York, Human
Sciences Press, 1982.


Schlichtegroll, Carl Felix von
_Wanda' ohne Maske und Pelz_. (Wanda' Without Mask and
Furs.) French translation: Paris, Tchou publ., 1968. 255 pages. No
ISBN. Comments: A detailed defense of Sacher-Masoch against his
wife's scurrilous allegations. Many details on their married life and
"Wanda's" (Aurora nee Rumelin) total unworthiness. [FR]


Scott, Gini Graham
_Erotic Power: An Exploration of Dominance and Submission_.
Published by Carol Publishing Group, A Citadel Press Book, NY, c
1983. 257 pages. ISBN: 0-8065-0968-6. $ 10.95 US. Comments: A
sensitive documentary study of the SM D/s scene in and around San
Francisco. Considerable attention given to heterosexual couples and
groups, with a strong emphasis upon Female Domination of submissive
males. Ms. Scott brings insight and understanding into her reporting,
generalizations, and commentary. Important comments on the
activities and members of the Service of Mankind Church. A landmark
work! [MB]


Sellers, Terence
_The Correct Sadist: The Memoirs of Angel Stern_. With
illustrations by Genesis P-Orridge. Brighton, England, Temple Press
Limited, Revised Edition, 1990. First published in 1983 by Vitriol
Pubs., New York. B&W drawings, v, 167 pages. ISBN: 1-871744-45-8. Price: $15.00 US. Now out of print. Comments: A very
insightful and thoughtfully written collection of reflections on SM. A
Sadistic Dominatrix tells about her methods and techniques, her soul
searching, and how she learned to dominate her masochistic clients -
most of whom she seemed to despise. Numerous dialogues between
different scene characters. Interesting collage artwork by GP-O
(interviewed in "Modern Primitives," 1989). An important early work
(1983) by a sophisticated participant, observer and writer. [MB]


_Selecting a Professional Dominatrix_
Mentor Publications, Diversified Services, PO Box 35737,
Brighton, MA 02135. 19 pages. Price: $5.00. [MB]


Servadio, Gaia
_Histora de R_. Spanish language. *In La Sonrisa Vertical
Collection (Tusquets Editores SA, Iradier 24, bajos. 08017 Barcelona,
Spain). We can consider this novel as a story of O but with a sub
male.* [Sal]


_The Service of Mankind Church_
Write to this organization at: The Service of Mankind Church,
PO Box 1335, El Cerrito, CA 94530. Phone: (510) 874-4974 Hotline,
or (510) 232-1396, Business phone, 10 AM - 7 PM PT. Comments:
See asfd FAQ for comments on SMC. Extensive discussion of SMC in
Gini Scott's 1983 book. Also, you can try: Northeaster Region
Essemian Sanctuary of the Goodess, P.O. Box 281172 East Hartford,
CT 16128-1172, Director: Laura Goodwin, HPs,
LaLaura@ix.netcom.com.


_SF & Fantasy Alternate Sexuality Booklist_
From: moh2@midway.uchicago.edu (Mary Anne). Dated:
2/2/94.


Shellogg, Susan
_Unnatural Acts_. New York, Barricade Books, Inc., c 1994.
254 pages. Price: $21.00 US. ISBN: 1-56980-00006. Comments: A
successful New York professional Dominatrix, Mistress Sonya, tells of
her experiences. [MB].


_Skin Two_
A glossy magazine with high quality color and B&W
photographs, graphic art, short essays, artwork, illustrations,
interviews, cartoons, classified ads, and resource guides.
Publisher/Editor Tim Woodward. Tim Woodward Publishing Ltd.,
BCM Box 2071, London WC1N 3XX. London-European emphasis,
but worldwide in scope. Around 100 pages per issue. Top quality
commentary and articles on the BDSM fetish culture. Outstanding,
highly artistic fetish photography. [SP]


_La Sonrisa Vertical_
*The collection La Sonrisa Vertical (Tusquets Editores) is the best
collection of erotic literature in Spanish. Here we can find many titles,
but, obviously, the most interesting for us are: La Venus de las Pieles,
Historia de O, Senorita Tacones Altos, A los pies de Omphalos, La
iniciacion de R, and Justine.* [Sal]


_Spectator_
California Sex Newsmagazine. 1-800-624-8433.


Spectrum Press
Spectrum Press Inc., 3023 N. Clark Street #109, Chicago, IL
60657. Phone: 1-800-606-1419. Internet: specpress@aol.com. Karen
Olsen. A variety of books (classics, U.S. government, fiction)
available on PC or Mac disk format, and erotica of interest by such
writers as Susan Anders, Jocelyn Joyce, Rachel Perez. There new
URL is http://users.aol.com/specpress/index.html [SP]


Spratacus Publications
*Spartacus Publications, P.O. Box 429, Orange, CA 92666,
puts out a number of FemDom magazines of high quality, with some
major emphasis on FemDom (but not exclusively).* [Peter G.]


_Stand Corrected_
A magazine "Dedicated to the Romance of Discipline."
Published by Shadow Lane, 3960 Laurel Canyon Blvd., Suite 461,
Studio City, CA 91614-3791. Comments: Shadow Lane offers
numerous videotapes, audiotapes, photosets, unbound manuscripts,
books and magazines. They primarily emphasize the spanking of
women by other women or men, but occasionally feature male
spankees. Stand Corrected, Shadow Lane's flagship publication, Issue
12, Spring 1992, offers 64 pages of "elegant spanking erotica": short
stores, cartoons, artwork, ads, clubs, etc.. They also produce the
magazines: Over the Knee, Spank Hard, and The Spank Shoppe.
Quality products aimed at spanking enthusiasts of both sexes. [MB]


Studlar, Gaylyn
_In the Realm of Pleasure: Von Sternberg, Dietrich, and the
Masochistic Aesthetic_. Urbana, Illinois, University of Illinois Press,
1988. Comments: [MB]


Studlar, Gaylyn
`Masochism and the Perverse Pleasures of the Cinema.'
_Movies and Methods_, edited by Bill Nichols, 1985, 2:602-621,
Berkeley and Los Angeles, University of California Press, 1985.
Comments: [MB]


Suffield, Pamela
_Gospel of the Goddess: A Return to God the Mother_. By
Pamela Suffield and William Bond. Illustrations from the Tarot and
Quabalah. New York, Artemis Creations Pub., c 1994. ISBN: 0-9640963-4-X. Price: $19.95 US.


_Sumissa_
Apartado de Correos 747, 41080 Sevilla, Spain. Spanish
language. Bimonthly. *The newest femdom magazine published in
Spain (issue 3 by now).* [Sal]


_Tacones Altos_
Erospress, Muntaner 114 bajos, 08036 Barcelona, Spain.
Spanish language. Color. *The Spanish edition of Leg Show,
published in the USA by Leg Glamour Inc of New York.* [Sal]


_Taste of Latex_
Starting in 1995, this magazine will be published by DM
International, P.O. Box 16188, Seattle WA 98116-0188.


Tan, Cecilia (Editor)
_S/M Futures: Erotica on the Edge_. Circlet Press, c 1995,
$12.95.


Terry, Victor
"Happy S/M Holidays: Gifts For Players." Reviewed by Victor
Terry. _Checkmate 13, Incorporating Dungeon Master_ (November,
1995, pp. 15-19. An excellent summary of recent good books and
videos. Mostly for the S/M gay male, but others also included.
Contact information about BDSM publishers and video makers.


Truscott, Carol
`S/M: Some Questions and a Few Answers.' _Leatherfolk_,
edited by Mark Thompson, 1991, pp. 15-36.


Tusquets Editores SA,
Tusquets Editores SA, Iradier 24, bajos. 08017 Barcelona,
Spain. Spanish language publisher of a number of femdom titles: "La
Srta Tacones Altos" is the Spanish edition of "Miss High-Hells" (Grove
Press, NY) where Helen and her friends mistreat Dennis; "La
institutriz inglesa" (published by Albor in the collection La Fuente de
Jade) is the spanish edition of "Harriet Marwood, Governess" (Grove
Press, NY); "Ceremonia de Mujeres" is the Spanish edition to Jean de
Berg's "Women's Rites: Scenes from the Erotic Imagination" (Grove
Press, NY) wherein a young woman in the BDSM clubs of NY finds
her identity as a Dominatrix. [Sal]

Vera, Diane
`Nine Degrees of Submission. Kinds of Masochism and/or
Submission.' Temporary Consensual `Slave Contract.' _The Lesbian
S/M Safety Manual_, edited by Pat Califia, 1988, pp. 69-76.


Wallace, Gloria
_Welts: Female Domination in An American Marriage_. By
Gloria and Dave Wallace. Published by Fem Supreme Books /Artemis
Creations Publishing, c 1995. (142 pages). $12.95. First person
narratives by Dave and Gloria about their introduction to FemDom; but
the real welts and sweat of S/M erotica are missing.


Ward, Bill
_The Art of Bill Ward_. Text by Bart Keister. Large format
books, English and French text, includes 100 BDSM drawings by Bill
Ward. Imported from France. Titles in this series include:
_Chevrotine_, _Bertha_, and _Pascaline_.


Warren, John
Author of the Mentor Series booklets on how to find and meet
BDSM lovers. Each booklet is 20 to 25 pages. See subject: Personals.
Mentor Publications, Diversified Services, PO Box 35737, Brington,
MA 02135.


_Women who Administer Punishment (WhAP!).
The magazine for Maternal Disciplinarians and the Men Who
Rever Them. A quarterly magazine from Retro Systems, 1850 Union
Street, Suite 1261, San Francisco, CA 94123. Around 50 pages an
issue. Lots of black and white photos. You might contact Keri
Pentauk (Editor in Chief) at mommysezso@aol.com. Issue #5 out in
3/96. Strong emphasis upon the discipline and control of one's
husband by a Dominant Woman. Discipline includes: spanking,
whipping, strict behavior modification, bondage, sexual submission,
petticoat and crossdressing play, position discipline (e.g., kneeling,
squatting along a wall), diaper and baby play, strict slavery to a
Superior Woman, alternative role playing, obedience training, etc..
Includes both fiction and nonfiction work. Emphasis upon women
dressed in casual or business attire, rather that in the Leather-Perv
styles. These Tops can lay on the leather; so, boy, on your knees. The
magazine includes ads for a variety of printed materials and erotica.
Retro Systems also offers color photo sets, instructional audio tapes,
and home disciplinary correspondence. [MB]


_Wicked Women_
A magazine published by Wicked Women, P.O. Box 305,
Redfern, 2016, Australia. [SP]


Williams, Linda 1946-
_Hard Core: Power, Pleasure, and the "Frenzy of the Visible_.
Berkeley, CA: University of California Press, 1989. Index (pp. 310-330), Bibliography (297-310), Notes, xii, 330 pages. ISBN: 0-520-06652-9. Chapter 7, pp.184-228, deals with sadomasochistic film
pornography. [MB]


Willows, Claire
_Modern Slaves_, Delectus Books, 1995, ISBN
1897767048. * A reprint of a privately printed book published in the
US in the '30s. The story of a young woman who ends up at a
mysterious Training School in Scotland, and there discovers the strict
discipline of a female house of correction.* [PP]


Wiseman, Jay
`Dungeon Safety For the Professional Mistress: I - III.' From
_Bitches With Whips_, Vol 2 No. 3, Vol 2 No. 4, and Vol 3 No. 1.
Longer articles that deal with recognizing and correcting hazardous
conditions in the dungeon, dealing with medical emergencies, and
dealing with clients. [SP]


Wiseman, Jay
_SM 101: A Realistic Introduction_. A spiralbound text. c
1992. 244 pages. Price: $24.95 US. References, resources, glossary.
Comments: An excellent guide to the basic concepts, psychological
aspects, social concerns, techniques, safety, a tools of erotic SM D/s.
[MB]


Zee, Ona
_Learning the Ropes_. A series of bondage videotapes from
Ona Zee and Francis Wiegers. You can get information via the web at:
http:/www.onazee.com. You can communicate by e-mail with:
ozp@ix.netcom.com (Francis A. Wiegers ). Or, you can write to:
Ona Zee Productions, 13360 Beach Ave., Marina del Rey CA 90292.


_Zeitgeist International_
Semiannual, glossy, color fetish magazine. English language
articles, ads, and news. Quality photographs. Zeitgeist Mail Order: 66
Holloway Road, London N7 8JC. Fax: 071-607-8144. Mail Order by
phone: 071-607-1310.



++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++





INDEX TO THE ABOVE BIBLIOGRAPHY AND RELATED
WORKS




AMAZONS, WARRIOR WOMEN, HEROIC-ATHLETIC WOMEN

alt.amazon-women.admirers
amazons-l (amazons-request@math.uio.no)


ARTISTS, PHOTOGRAPHERS, GRAPHIC ARTISTS, ILLUSTRATORS

Eros Comics.
Guido Crepax.
Lady Laura.
Patrick C.L. McCain
Panasewicz. Las Vegas.
Michael Rosen. San Francisco.
See Also: Periodicals, Illustrated Works
Priscess Sheeba. Dream Land Series. Canada.
Miss Mercy Van Vlack. NY.

aaa

AUDIOTAPES, AUDIO CDs

Alexis Payne interview, Shadow Lane
Femina Society
Jaffe, Deborah
Leda Productions.
Shadow Lane Productions. Eve Howard interviews.
Retro Systems, Women Who Administer Punishment
Wolfe, Catherine. Orb & Scepter.



AUTOBIOGRAPHICAL, BIOGRAPHICAL AND INTERVIEWS

Bob Flanagan: Supermasochist. Bob Flanagan.
Call Me Mistress. Natalie Rhys.
The Confessions of Wanda von Sacher-Masoch.
The Correct Sadist. Terence Sellers.
Erotic Power. Gini Scott.
The First Masochist. James Cleugh.
Good Sex. Julia Hutton (Editor).
The House of Pain. Monique Van Cleef.
It's Only a Game. Lindi St. Clair.
Leatherfolk. Mark Thompson (Editor).
Leatherwomen. Laura Antoniou (Editor).
Leda Productions.
Leopold Von Sacher-Masoch. Alfred Kossmann.
My Private Life. Mistress Nan.
Sadomasochism. Elizabeth Harris.
Skin Two. Magazine.
A Taste For Pain. Maria Marcus.
Tied Up With Love. Jeanette Luther.
Unnatural Acts. Susan Shellogg.
Wanda' Ohne Maske und Pelz. Carl Schlichtegroll.
Welts. Glona and Dave Wallace.
Whips and Kisses. Mistress Jacqueline.
Women on Top. Nancy Friday.



BIBLIOGRAPHIES, REFERENCE WORKS, INDEXES,
POINTERS

Bibliography on Feminism and World Politics.
Encyclopedia of Unusual Sex Practices. Brenda Love.
FAQ for alt.amazon-women.admirers.
FAQ for alt.sex.bondage. Rob Jellinghaus.
FAQ for alt.sex.femdom. Jay Doubleyou.
Femina Society Book List. Ms. C. - Mistress Infinity
Happy S/M Holidays. Victor Terry.
The Male Masochist. Michael P. Garofalo.
Petit Dictionnaire... Marie-France Le Fel.
Pointer to Sex Info on the Net. Green Way.
Sensuous Magic. Pat Califia.
SF & Fantasy Alternate Sexuality Booklist. Mary Anne.
S&M/B&D Directory. Kathy Tobey.
S&M Bibliogrpahy. Graham Barron.
S&M: An Annotated Bibliography. Michael P. Garofalo.
SM101. Jay Wiseman.
Vatican Revue #001. Minx Kelley.



BODY MODIFICATION, PIERCING, TATOOING, SCARIFICATION

Bob Flanagan: Supermasochist.



BONDAGE, ROPES, CHAINS, DISCIPLINE,
CONFINEMENT,

Learning the Ropes (Video).
Ona Zee Productions: http:/www.onazee.com
See Also Instructional, Equipment, Clothing,
SM101. Jay Wiseman.


BOOKSTORES, MAIL ORDER


Delectus Books, 27 Old Gloucester Street, London, WC1N 3XX.
http://www.erotic-bookshop.co.uk
The Eclectic Connection. Chicago.
Good Vibrations. San Francisco.
Nexus Books, 332 Ladbroke Grove, London W10 5AH, UK
QSM. Http://www.qualitysm.com
SpiceWorks, PO Box 3821, London, N5 1UY, UK.






BOTTOM, SUBMISSIVE, MASOCHIST, SLAVE

The bottoming Book. Dossie Easton and Lady Green
Bound and Gagged magazine.
Masochism. Lyn Cowan.
Metropolitan slave magazine.
S&M 101. Jay Wiseman.
Ties That Bind. Guy Baldwin.



BULLETIN BOARD SYSTEMS

Amazon Arena BBS, 702-243-7723
Boston Dungeon Society. Telnet BDSBBS.COM
Dark Chateau, Telnet darkchat.com (166.82.150.90)
The English Palace
Lifestyle Online, Telnet lifestyle.com
Popular Emotion BBS. 215-386-9333
See Also: Internet Newsgroups, Internet Directory



CD ROM, COMPUTER SOFTWARE, COMPACT DISK FILES

CyberKinky CD Catalog. Versatile Fashions.
Domin-a-Trics.
Klassy Kinks
Mistress Jacqueline's Dungeon.
Spectrum Press.


CHAT ROOMS, IRC, PANEL DISCUSSIONS

IRC #Dom/Sub, #bdsm
IRC #femdom, #femsuprem, #femina
Women in Power Forum on Delphi.



CHIVALRY, COURTLY LOVE, ROMANTIC RITES AND CUSTOMS

1,001 Ways To Be Romantic. Gregory Godek.




CHRONOLOGICAL LIST: IMPORTANT WORKS, LANDMARK WORKS

1800 Juliette. Marquis de Sade.
1870 Venus In Furs. Leopold Von Sacher-Masoch.
1884 Monsieur Venus. Rachilde (Vallette).
1924 A Guide to the Correction of Young Gentlemen.
1928 Eros: The Meaning of My Life. Edith Cadivec.
1971 Eulenspiegel Society Newletter, now Prometheus
1972 Leatherman's Handbook. Larry Townsend.
1974 S/M: The Last Taboo. Caroline Greene.
1974 The House of Pain. Monique Von Cleef.
1981 Coming To Power. SAMOIS.
1982 Masochism: A Jungian View. Lyn Cowan
1983 Erotic Power. Gini Scott Graham.
1983 The Correct Sadist. Terence Sellers.
1984 Urban Aboriginals. Geoff Mains.
1988 Macho Sluts. Pat Califia.
1988 The Lesbian SM Safety Manual. Pat Califia, Editor.
1989 Sandmutopian Guardian magazine
1990 Sexual Personae. Camille Paglia.
1991 Leatherfolk. Mark Thompson, Editor.
1992 SM101. Jay Wiseman.
1993 Different Loving. Gloria G. Brame.
1993 Sensuous Magic. Pat Califia.
1993 Bob Flanagan: Supermasochist.
1995 Screw the Roses, Give Me the Thorns. Philip Miller.



CLOTHING, FETISH FASHIONS, LEATHER AND LATEX, BODY
MODIFICATIONS

alt.sex.fetish.fashion
Beyond Leather. Pat Califia.
Body Play. Magazine.
Boot Lover's Digest. Magazine.
Corset (FAQ) by Ms. Margo
Cross Dressing With Dignity. Peggy J. Rudd.
Deva Fetish. Image Art Books.
Divinity. Magazine.
Domina. Magazine.
The Erotic Art of Leone Frollo. Image Art Books.
Fantasy Fashion Digest. Magazine.
Female Fetishism. Lorraine Gamman.
Fetish Factory, Florida.
Fetish Times. Magazine.
Fetish Times (UK). Magazine.
Fetish World. Magazine.
Leatherfolk. Mark Thompson (Editor).
Leg Tease - Fantastic Books
O. Magazine.
PFIQ. Piercing Fans International Quarterly. Magazine.
Ritual. Magazine.
See Also: Fetishism, Crossdressing
The Sex Life of the Foot and Shoe. William A. Rossi.
Skin Two. Magazine.
Stiletto. Magazine.
Tied Up With Love. Jeanette Luther.
TV Connection. Magazine.
Versatile Fashions. Mistress Antoinette.
Yva Richard. Alexandre Dupouy.
Zeitgeist International. Magazine.



FETISHISM, CLOTHING AND FASHIONS: CHRONOLOGY

1914-1943, Yva Richard, Paris
{{{ How about more references?? }}}



COMMENTARIES, ESSAYS, CRITICISM AND
INTERPRETATION

Against Sadomasochism. R. Linden (Editor).
The Best of Skin Two. Tim Woodward (Editor).
Erotic Power. Gini Scott.
The Kiss of the Whip. Jim Prezwalski.
Leatherfolk. Mark Thompson.
Petit Dictionnaire... Marie-France Le Fel.
Public Sex: The Culture of Radical Sex. Pat Califia.
Rituals of Love. Ted Polhemus.
Sadeian Woman. Angela Carter.
Sadomasochism in Everyday Life. Lynn Chancer.
Sexual Personae. Camille Paglia.



CROSS DRESSING, PETTICOAT DOMINATION,
TRANSVESTITES

Cross Dressing With Dignity. Peggy J. Rudd.
Feminine Illusion. Periodical.
Fetish World. Magazine.
Mrs. Silk. Periodical.
My Husband Wears My Clothes. Peggy J. Rudd.
My Way (Our Girls). Ezine by bobbiswan@aol.com
The Petticoat Dominant. A.K.S.S. Delctus Books.
TV Connection, DM International, Magazine.
Versatile Fashions. Mistress Antoinette.
Vested Interests. Marjorie Garber.
Women Who Administer Punishment. Magazine.


EQUIPMENT, SUPPLIES, STORES, CRAFTS WORKERS,
BOOKSTORES

Adams Whips and Gillian's Toys, The Utopian Network.
Alt.Sex.Bondage FAQ
Alt.Sex.Fetish FAQ
Bondage Catalog by Spartacus.
Caprice Moden, German.
Delectus Books, England.
Demask, Corsetry & Lingerie Catalog, Amsterdam
Draconian Leather by Metz, Janet Metz Hayes, Whips.
Erotika Bleu Creations. T Shirts.
Fantasy Island Innovations Catalog
Fetish Factory, Florida
Fetish Factory, Canada
Geschnurt in Leder, German
Good Vibrations
Jeanette Heartwood, Heartwood Whips of Passion, California.
The Midian Conspiracy, England.
Olympia Publishing, England.
QSM. Karen Mendelsohn.
Rope. Augusta Fury. _Bitches With Whips_ Vol3, No2.
Rubber Catalog, England
Sarah Jones of Lashes by Sarah (San Francisco), Whips.
TFN Research Group, Attitude, GDV, Dianna Vesta.
The Utopian Network, Adams Whips and Gillian's Toys.
Versatile Fashions. Mistress Antionette.
X-Trem, German.


EUROPEAN SCENE

For sources in German and French, for Mac users, write to Dirk De
Kegel (dekegel@innet.be).


FEMALE SUPREMACY

alt.women.supremacy
Attitude. TFN Research. GDV. Dianna Vesta.
The Femina Society. Organization, publications.
Female Supremacy. Magazine.
Gynarchy Club. Organization.
Orb and Scepter. Organization. Catherine Wolfe.
Roses With Thorns.


FEMINISM, WOMEN'S LIBERATION, WOMEN'S
RIGHTS

Against Sadomasochism. Edited by R. Linden.
alt.society.neutopia
Backlash. Susan Faludi.
Bibliography on Feminism and World Politics.
The Castration of Oedipus. Carla Ferstman.
Female Sexual Slavery. Kathleen Barry.
The Femina Society.
Femininity and Domination. Sandra Bartky.
Pleasure and Danger. Carole Vance.
Powers of Desire. Ann Sitnow.
Sadomasochism in Everyday Life. Lynn Chancer.
Sexual Personae. Camille Paglia.
A Taste for Pain. Maria Marcus.
Wildfire. Sonia Johnson.
Women in Power Forum on Delphi.


FETISHISM, PERV-STYLE, LEATHER CULTURE

American Foot Fetish Society
Fetish Times
Hair to Stay.
Leg Show. Newspaper.
Mrs. Silk
The Return of the Female Fetish and the Fiction of
the Phallus. Anne McClintock.
See Also: Clothing, Crossdressing, Illustrated Works,
Periodicals,
Skin Two.
The Sex Life of the Foot and Shoe. William Rossi.
Three Essays on the Theory of Sexuality. Freud.


FICTION - COLLECTED WORKS

Affinities. Rachel Perez. Masquerade & Spectrum.
By Her Subdued. Laura Antoniou (Editor)
CF Publications.
Coming To Power. Edited by SAMOIS.
Dark Desires. Maria Del Rey.
Daughters of Darkness. Pam Keesey (Editor).
La Domme. Claire Baeder (Editor).
La Fuente de Jade. (Spanish)
Herotica. Susie Bright (Editor).
Leatherwomen. Laura Antoniou (Editor).
Leatherwomen II. Laura Antoniou (Editor).
No Other Tribute. Laura Antoniou (Editor)
Passage and Other Stories. Aarona Griffin.
The Pearl. Ballantine Books, Grove Press.
The Queen of the Grove. Louise Malatesta (Editor).
The Romance of Chastisment.
La Sonrisa Vertical


FICTION - CLASSICS, PRE 19th CENTURY WORKS

Arabian Nights. Nights 147 & 148 (Galland's #). [FR]
Arabian Nights. Nights 170-172 (Galland's #). [FR]
Bible. The Book of Judith.
Confessions. Jean-Jacques Rousseau.
Franklin's Tale from the Canterbury Tales
Juliette. Marquis de Sade.
The Nibelungenlied. (Brunhilde's Refusal.) [FR]
Wife of Bath's Tale from the Canterbury Tales


FICTION - DETECTIVE, MYSTERY, SUSPENSE

The S/M Murder: Murder at Roman Hill. E. Oliver.
The Torquemanda Killer. John Warren.



FICTION - HETEROSEXUAL, FEMDOM-MALESUB, MARRIED HET COUPLES

Afternoons of a Woman of Leisure. Elizabeth Bennett.
The Agency Trilogy. David Meltzer.
The Applicant. Lizabeth Dusseau.
The Black Post Society. Mike Vickers.
Calenture I. dmger@ix.netcom.com (Trystilarn)
Calenture II. dmger@ix.netcom.com (Trystilarn)
Candy Lips. Jocelyn Joyce.
CF Publications.
Cinderella. Titan Beresford.
Courtney. an169860@anon.penet.fi. 12/94.
Debbie's Gift. Sue (thou4@nr.infi.net)
The Delicious Daughter. Paul Little.
Delta of Venus. Anais Nin.
Demon Heat. Jocelyn Joyce.
Dominant Mystique. Magazine.
Domination. Michael Cecilione.
Eleanor's System. Anonymous.
Enter With Trumpets. Helen Henley.
An Excess of Love. Jac Lenders. Grove Press, 1968.
Exit to Eden. Anne Rampling.
Harriet Marwood, Governess. Delectus.
Heart of Desire. Maria Del Rey.
Historia de R. Gaia Servadio.
Houseboy. Mistress Leah LaFleur.
The Iron Lady. R. Pruett.
Love in Wartime. Liesel Kulig.
Love's Illusion. Anonymous.
Making of a Mistress. an75628@anon.penet.fi (Mule)
Miss High Heels. Alizarin Lake.
Monsieur Venus. Rachilde (Vallette). 1884.
My Darling Dominatrix. Grant Antrews.
Nina Foxton. Titian Beresford.
The New Story of O. Anonymous. Blue Moon.
The Obsession. Maria Del Rey.
Protests, Pleasures and Raptures. Anonymous.
The Queen of the Grove. Louise Malatesta (Editor).
Ring of Steel. Jim Dickson.
Sex on Doctor's Orders. Anonymous.
Sister Radiance. David Aaron Clark.
Submissions. Grant Antrews.
Sweet Retribution. Anonymous.
Telepaths Don't Need Safewords. Cecilia Tan.
Three Women. Jocelyn Joyce.
Thongs. Alexander Trocchi.
Tourniquet. Alice Joannou.
Venus in Furs. Leopold Von Sacher-Masoch. 1870.
Wet Forever. David Aaron Clark.
Women's Rites. Jean de Berg.
See Also: Periodicals



FICTION - GOVERNESS, SCHOOLMISTRESS,
HEADMISTRESS

The Blue Rose. Alison Tyler.
A Guide to the Correction of Young Gentlemen. A Lady.
The Delicious Daughter. Paul Little.
The English Governess. Anonymous.
First Training. Anonymous. Blue Moon.
The Governess. Magazine.
Harriett Marwood, Governess. See Caroline Greene.
Initiation Rites. Anonymous.
Judith Boston. Titian Beresford.
Lady F. Anonymous.
Mistress Mine. Valentina Cilescu.
The Petticoat Dominant. Anonymous.
Private Lessons. Lindsay Welsh.
The Queen of the Grove. Louise Malatesta (Editor).
The Romance of Chastisement.
Swiss Finishing School. Mistress Clare.


FICTION - GROUPS, MULTI-PLAYER SCENES, ORGIES

Birch Fever. Martin Pyx.
Brutal Femdom (Parts 1-3). wi.3231@wizvax.com.
By Her Subdued. Laura Antoniou, Editor.
The Catalyst. Sarah Adamson.
The Countess in Red.
Debbie's Gift. Sue (amity@spyder.net)
Exit to Eden. Anne Rampling.
The Garden of Evil. Octave Mirbeau.
Lust of the Cossacks. Anonymous.
Master of Timberland. Sara French.
Making of a Mistress. Mule (mule@tpe.com)
My Darling Dominatrix. Grant Antrews.
Natasha. Delectus Books.
Painter's Daughters. Farnorth (farnorth@alaska.north)
Passion in Rio. Anonymous.
Return to Timberland. Sara French.
The Sisters (1-5). an125886@anon.penet.fi.
Story of Monique. Anonymous.
Toilet Service. bhowell@ismi.net
The Torture Garden. Octave Mirbeau.
The Yellow Room. Anonymous.
There's a Whip In My Valise. Greta X.


FICTION - LESBIAN, LEATHER DYKES, FEMDOM- FEMSUB, S/M DYKES

Affinities. Rachel Perez. Masquerade & Spectrum.
Amanda. Timothy Taylor.
Bad Attitude. Magazine.
Bad Habits. Lindsay Welsh.
Birch Fever. Martin Pyx.
The Blue Rose. Alison Tyler.
By Her Controlled. Laura Antoniou, Editor.
Calyx of Isis. Pat Califia.
CF Publications.
The Change. Willie.
City of Women. Susan Anders.
Coming To Power. Edited by SAMOIS.
Daughters of Darkness. Pam Keesey (Editor).
Doc and Fluff. Pat Califia.
Dreams of Vengeance. Artemis OakGrove.
The First Stroke. Cappy Kotz.
Half Dressed, She Obeyed. Deborah Ryder.
The Haven. Valentina Cilescu.
Ilene. Rachel Perez. (Short story in Affinities).
The Image. Jean de Berg.
Leatherwomen. Laura Antoniou (Editor).
Leatherwomen II. Laura Antoniou (Editor).
Lust of the Cossacks. Anonymous.
Macho Sluts. Pat Califia.
Melting Point. Pat Califia.
No Other Tribute. Laura Antoniou (Edior)
Passage and Other Stories. Aarona Griffin.
Pink Champagne. Susan Anders.
The Raging Peace. Artemis OakGrove.
Slaves of Shoanna. Mercedes Kelly.
The SM Murder: Murder at Roman Hill. Elisabeth Oliver.
The Sisters (1-5). an125886@anon.penet.fi.
Some Women. Laura Antoniou, Editor.
Spring Fevers. Martin Pyx. Blue Moon.
The Surpirse Party. Pat Califia.
Taking Lauren. hawks@QueensU.CA (Katharine Hawks)
Tell Me What You Like. Kate Allen.
Throne of Council. Artemis OakGrove.
Venus Infers. Magazine.
A Victorian Romance. Lindsay Welsh.
White Thighs. Alexander Trocchi.


FICTION - NEW SOCIETIES, ALTERNATIVE CULTURES

Egalia's Daughters. Gerd Brantenberg.
The Gothic Tower.


FICTION - POETRY

The Pearl. Grove Press.
Poems and Ballads. Swinburne. 1866.


FICTION - PRISONS, CORRECTIONAL INSTITUTES, JAILS

The Institute. Maria Del Rey.
Modern Slaves. Claire Willows.
The Sisterhood of the Institute. Maria Del Rey.


FICTION - SCIENCE FICTION

Selling Venus. Cecilia Tan, Editor.
S/M Futures. Cecilia Tan.
Telepaths Don't Need Safewords. Cecilia Tan.


FICTION - VAMPIRES, SUPERNATUREAL, OCCULT

Daughters of Darkness. Pay Keesey (Editor)
Demon Heat. Joycelyn Joyce (Peter Anselmo).


FICTION - WEB PAGES

Akasha, http://www.webcom.com/~akasha
Amity, http://www.tpe.com/~amity
Farnorth, http://www.tpe.com/~mule
Mule, http://www.tpe.com/~mule


FILMS OR VIDEO - COMEDY, SATIRE

The Adams Family. Barry Sonnenfeld, 1991.
Eating Raoul. Paul Bartel, 1982.
Exit to Eden. Garry Marshall, 1994.
High Anxiety. Mel Brooks, 1977.
Spaced Out. British.


FILMS OR VIDEO - HETERSEXUAL, FEMDOM-MALESUB, MARRIED, COUPLES

Bitter Moon. Roman Polanski, 1992.
The Ballad of the Sad Cafe. Simon Callow, 1992.
The Blue Angel. Josef von Sternberg, 1930.
Body Chemistry II. Adam Simon, 1991.
Body of Evidence. Uli Edel, 1992.
Boy Meets Girl. Ray Brady.
Cruel Turnabout. Dungeon Video, 1990, #DVI107.
Dead Man 2. Ian Kerkhof.
Exit To Eden. Garry Marshall, 1994.
The Evil Camerman. Richard Kern.
Fanny Hill. 1981.
Heart of Midnight. Matthew Chapman, 1989.
In the Realm of the Senses. Nagisa Oshima, 1976.
Johnny Guitar. 1954.
La Maitresse. Gerard Depardieu, 1976.
La Vampire Nu. Jean Rollins.
Mano Destra. Cleo Ueblmann.
Mishima, A life In 4 Chapters (Kyoko's House). Paul
Schrader, 1985.
Mistress Bridgette's Justice. Janus Rainer, 1992.
My Tutor. George Bowers, 1992.
The Piano. 1993.
Salon Kitty. Tinto Brass.
Seduction: The Cruel Woman. Monika Treut, 1985.
La Sequence Des Barres Paralleles. Ian Kerkhof.
Sid and Nancy. Alex Cox, 1986.
Stations of the Cross. Ian Kerkhof.
Something Wild. Jonathan Demme, 1986.
Submit to Me, Pierce. Richard Kern, 1989.
Supervixens. Russ Meyer, 1975.
Temptation. Doris Kloster.
Tokyo Decadence. Ryu Murakami.
Take-out Torture. Dungeon Video, 1990, #DVI103.
Venus in Furs. Massimo Dallamano,
Venus In Furs. Maarje Seyferth & Victor Niewenhuijs, 1994.
A Woman in Flames. Robert Van Ackeren, 1984.
Warehouse Slaves Discipline. Bizarre Video, 1990.
** Send Your Additions to viaverde@netcom.com ***



FILMS OR VIDEO - LESBIAN, LEATHERDYKE,
FEMDOM-FEMSUB

Chained Heat. Paul Nichols, 1983.
Female Misbehavior. Monika Treut, 1992.


FILMS OR VIDEO - SCIENCE FICTION, FANTASY

Spaced Out. British.
Star Maidens. British.


FILMS OR VIDEO - VIOLENCE, NONCONSENSUAL SM,
HORROR, MYSTERY

Alien. Ridley Scott. 1979.
Basic Instinct. Paul Verhoeven, 1992.
Batman Returns. Tim Burton, 1992.
Faster Pussycat! Kill! Kill! Russ Meyer, 1962.
Illsa She Wolf of the SS. 1973.
Le Frisson Des Vampires. Jean Rollin.
Heart of Midnight. Matthew Chapman, 1989.
The Night Porter. 1973.
Romeo Is Bleeding. 1993.
Succubus. Jess Franco.
Valerie. Jaromil Jires.
Vampyres. Joseph Larraz, 1974.
Videodrome. David Cronenberg, 1983.


FILMS - CRITICISM AND INTERPRETATION, REVIEWS

Hard Core. Linda Williams.
Hollywood Babylon. David Flint.
Masochistic Ecstasy. Kaja Silverman.



sss


FLAGELLATION, SPANKING, WHIPPING, PADDLING

CF Publications.
Fellowship of the Rod. A.K.S.S.
The Governess. Magazine. A.K.S.S.
A Guide to the Correction of Young Gentlemen.
http://www.io.com/~casper
Jeux De Dames Cruelles (1850-1960). Serge Nazarieff.
Leda/NuWest Productions.
My Private Life. Mistress Nan.
The Romance of Chastisement.
Sasismus, Masochismus, Flagellantismus. Walter Braun.
Sandmutopian Guardian. Magazine.
See Subject: Instructional, Techniques, How To.
Sweet Retribution. A.K.S.S. Delectus Books.
Women Who Administer Punishment. Magazine.



GODDESS WORSHIP

alt.fan.kali.astarte.inanna
alt.religion.wicca
Aphrodite-l Contact Ceci at aphrodite-l@lysator.liu.se
Crone-l crone-request@smartdocs.com.
The Once and Future Goddess. Elinor W. Gadon.
Reflexions sur Lilith. Jean Carteret.
La Renaissance De Lillith. Joel de Gravelaine.
See Also: Religion, Occult
The Spiral Dance. Starhawk.
The Witches' Goddess. Janet Farrar.


GOVERNESS, SCHOOL MISTRESS

Confessions and Experiences. Edith Cadivec.
A Guide to the Correction of Young Gentlemen.
The Governess. Magazine. A.K.S.S.
The Romance of Chastisement.
Women Who Administer Punishment. Magazine.


iii



INFANT GAMES, ADULT BABIES, DIAPER
TRAINING,

JK Personal Products



ILLUSTRATED WORKS, ADULT COMICS, DRAWINGS,
FINE ART

The Art of Bill Ward. Bill Ward.
The Art of (Eric) Stanton - Master of Bizarre, Book I.
L'Arte Erotica Di Leone Frollo. Leone Frollo.
Bertha. The Art of Bill Ward.
Bondage and Foot Fantasies. Saudelli.
Chevrotine. The Art of Bill Ward.
Confidential TV. Eric Stanton, Eros Comics, 1994.
Countess in Red.
Diva Bizarre.
Diva Fetish.
Diva Obsexion.
Drawing the Line.
Dressage & Una Bruna Pungente. Bernard Montorgueil.
The Dream Land Series. Princess Sheeba.
Eric Kroll's Fetish Girls.
Eros Comix.
The Erotic Art of Leone Frollo.
Erotica. Charlotte Hill.
Erotica Universalis. Gilles Neret, Editor.
Leda Productions.
Madame De Varennes & Barbara. Bernard Montorgueil.
Madam Adista. Gene Bilbrew, Bizarre Comics.
Pascaline. The Art of Bill Ward.
Prometheus. Magazine.
The Road to Repentance. Georges Pichard.
Rubber Monastery.
See Also: Periodicals, Artists
Skin Two. Magazine.
The Spider Garden. Michael Manning.
Valentina. Guido Crepax.
Venus in Furs. Guido Crepax.


INSTRUCTIONAL, TECHNIQUES, HOW-TO

The bottoming book. Dossie Easton and Catherine A. Liszt.
The Correct Sadist. Terence Sellers.
Different Loving. Gloria Brame.
Finding Your Dominant Woman.
Learning the Ropes. Race Bannon.
Learning the Ropes (Video).
Ona Zee:http:/www.onazee.com
Leatherman's Handbook (I & II) . Larry Townsend.
Leathersex. Joseph W. Bean.
The Lesbian S/M Safety Manual.
The Loving Dominant. John Warren.
The Master's Manual. Jack Rinella.
On the Safe Edge: A Manual for SM Play.
Sensuous Magic. Pat Califia.
Selecting a Professional Dominatrix.
S/M: A Player's Handbook. Lady Tanith.
SM 101. Jay Wiseman.
The Topping Book. Bossie Easton and Lady Green.
A Tangled Web. Lady Tanith.



INTERNET DIRECTORY: SM AUTHORS, EDITORS, CONTRIBUTORS, PRODUCERS,
AUTHORITIES, BUSINESS PERSONS

Akasha. akasha@netcom.com
Mistress Blanca and Peter. viaverde@ix.netcom.com
Jay Doubleyou. ASFemdom FAQ editor. juu@netcom.com
Governess Eisanna. darkkhour@aol.com (Darkk Hour)
Femina Society. infinity@palace.com. (Ms. C)
Future Sex. Lisa Palac, Ed.. futursex@well.sf.ca.us.
Rob Jellinghaus. ASB FAQ Editor. robj@unreal.com
Mistress Julie. DENG82A@prodigy.com (Julie Mcdonnell)
Laura Goodwin. SMC Church. LaLaura@ix.netcom.com.
Lady Green. Janet W. Hardy. verdant@crl.com
Leonard. ixion@dorsai.org
Dee-Ann LeBlanc. dee@resaissoft.com (FemSupremacy)
Robert J. LeBlanc. rjl@renaissoft.com (FemSupremcy)
Trevor Jacques, trevorj@
Andreas Mann. andreasman@aol.com
Ms. Margo. margo@netcom.com
Ms. Natasha, Bondage Tymes. MSNAT123@aol.com
Mistress Nan. Tirant@aol.com
Pan Pantziarka, Fetish Times (UK), pan@cix.compulink.co.uk
Jack Rinella, ttp://metroslave.com/rinella/mrjackr.html
Princess Sheeba. princess.sheeba@linq.com
See Also: Bulletin Board Systems, Internet Newsgroups
Versatile Fashions, Mistress Antoinette.
Vfashion@palace.com
SandMUtopian Guardian. siradam@ix.netcom.com
Lady Tanith. pleasure@netcom.com (Tanith Tyrr)
Villeinage. Sarah De Palma. Fingers@Phoenix.Phoenix.net
Jay Wiseman. jaybob@crl.com
Francis A. Wiegers and Ona Zee. ozp@ix.netcom.com



INTERNET NEWSGROUPS, MAIL LISTS, DISCUSSION
GROUPS, IRCs


alt.amazon-women.admirers
alt.fan.kali.astarte.inanna
alt.lesbian.feminist.poetry
alt.mothersuperior
alt.pantyhose
alt.personals.bondage
alt.personals.spanking
alt.personals.spanking.punishment
alt.religion.wicca
alt.sex
alt.sex.bondage
alt.sex.bondage.personals
alt.sex.erotica.marketplace
alt.sex.feet
alt.sex.femdom
alt.sex.femdom FAQ
alt.sex.fetish.fashion
alt.sex.fetish.feet
alt.sex.fetish.hair
alt.sex.fetish.watersports
alt.sex.magazines
alt.sex.spanking
alt.sex.voyeurism
alt.sex.watersports
alt.society.neutopia
alt.women.supremacy
amazons-l (amazons-request@math.uio.no) femdom-dc-request@phear.digex.net, yami@digex.ne
femsuprem-requests@renaissoft.com
Fetish Network: TFNBBS.COM
gopher to tpe.ncm.com
IRC #Dom/Sub, #bdsm
IRC #femdom, #femsuprem, #femina
Pointer to Sex Info on the Net. Mistress Blanca and Peter.

Powerplay-l@netcom.com
rec.arts.erotica
See Also: Bulletin Board Systems, WWW Pages
Women in Power Forum on Delphi.



INTER-RACIAL, INTER-CULTURAL, MULTI-CULTURAL

Black Leather in Color.



INTRODUCTORY WORKS, BEGINNER'S GUIDES

alt.sex.bondage FAQ. robj@unreal.com
How to Make Your Man Behave... Karen Salmansohn.
The Kiss of the Whip. Jim Prezwalski.
Learning the Ropes. Race Bannon.
Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns. Philip Miller. Sensuous Magic. Pat Califia.
The Sexually Dominant Woman. Lady Green.
SM101. Jay Wiseman.



LEGAL, CENSORSHIP, CRIMINAL, FREEDOM-PRIVACY
ISSUES

Leatherfolk. Mark Thompson, Editor.
Maid to Order. Anne McClintock.
Public Sex: The Culture of Radical Sex. Pat Califia.


LESBIANS

Bad Attitude.
Brat Attack.
Books by Pat Califia.
See Also: Fiction - Lesbians, Bisexual


MARRIAGE, COUPLES, MONOGAMOUS RELATIONSHIPS

1,001 Ways To Be Romantic. Gregory Godek.
The Queen of the Grove. Louise Malatesta (Editor).
Ties That Bind. Guy Baldwin.
Venus in Furs. Leopold Von Sacher-Masoch.
Welts. Gloria Wallace.
Women Who Administer Punishment. Magazine.


MASTURBATION

Dominatrix Domain. Magazine.
Leg Show. Newspaper.
The Wicked Hand. Titian Beresford.


MUSIC, SONGS, OPERA

Jaffe, Deborah. Rock/Jazz
Nine Inch Nails. Rock 1993
Once in a Lifetime, Sarah Brightman, _Dive_.
Paul Valery's Semiramis. Opera, 1934.
Velvet Underground's Venus in Furs. Rock Music.


NON-ENGLISH LANGUAGE RESOURCES

German: Xur - Germany "HCB: Handbuch des Sadomasochismus"
Japanese Femdom books and magazines
http://www.st.rim.or.jp/~/tku
Spanish - Search this document with term "Spanish"



OCCULT, MAGICK, WICCAN, DARKSIDE GODDESS,
KALI, NEW AGE


alt.fan.kali.astarte.inanna
alt.magick.*
alt.pagan
alt.religion.sexuality
alt.religion.wicca
An ABC of Witchcraft. Doreen Valiente.
Crone-l crone-request@smartdocs.com.
(bree@smartdocs.com)
The Femina Society. Organization, publications.
Kali! Death of Ego Ritual. amfas@netcom.com (Coyote)
The Satanic Witch. Anton La Vey.
See Also: Religion, Goddess Worship



ORGANIZATIONS, CLUBS

[For More Information, Look at alt.sex.femdom FAQ]

Alice Kerr-Southerland Society. The Governess.
Alt.Sex.Femdom FAQ. By Jay Doubleyou.
Amazon Sisterhood Society
The Black Orchid. (305) 437-5176, Ext: 9655.
D&S Society of Baltimore. dssb@aol.com
The Ebony Goddess Society
Escape. Ga03429@vnet.net
The Eulenspiegel Society. ixion@dorsai.dorsai.org
The FDMC Society
Goddess of Domination.
Gynarchy Club
The FEMINA Society. (508) 374-6127.
The Harmony League. England. 081 989 0281.
The Leather Rose Society (Texas). rabbit@metronet.com
The National Leather Organization. (206) 789-8990.
Orb and Scepter. (702) 251-7201.
People Exchanging Power. (908) 284-8040.
POWER
The Service of Mankind Church
Society of Janus,
http://www.blackiris.com/SFLeatherMC/Janus/Janus.html


PERIODICALS: MAGAZINES, NEWSPAPERS,
NEWSLETTERS, ZINES

Attitude
Bad Attitude
Behind the Scene
Bitches With Whips
Black Leather in Color
Black Sheets
Blue Blood
Body Play and Modern Primitives Quarterly
Bondage Tymes
Boot Lover's Digest
Boudoir Noir
Brat Attack
Capitualtion - Fantastic Books
CF Publications
Corporal - Fantastic Books
Cruella
Divinity
Domina
Domina News
Dominant Domain - New Estoeric Press
Dominant Mystique - New Esoteric Press
Dominant View
Domination Directory International
Domission
Dungeonmaster
Esencia S/M. (Spanish)
Echoes From the Sanctuary
The Eulenspiegel Society Newsletter: Prometheus
Fantasy Fashion Digest
Female Supremacy
Feminine Illusion
Fetish Times
Fetish Times (UK)
Fetish World - New Estoeric Press
Future Sex
Get Kinky
The Governess
Goddess
Greenery
Hair To Stay
In Step
International Discipline Review
Kinky People, Places and Things
KPPT
LBW (Leather, Bondage & Whips) Magazine
Leather Links
Leg Tease - Fantastic Books
Leg Show
Ma'am
Men Under Control
Mistress 4 U
Mrs. Silk
My Way (Our Girls)
O
Outrageous Women
Passion: Our Leather Soul
Piercing Fans International Quarterly
QSM Newsletter
Promethus. The Eulenspiegel Society Newsletter.
QUIM
Riding Cult
Ritual
Roses With Thorns
S.A.D.E. (Spanish)
Sandmutopia Guardian
Secret
Servant's Quarters
Skin Two
Slippery When Wet
Spank Hard - Stand Corrected
Spectator
Stand Corrected
Stiletto
subCULTURE - Mistress Clare
Sumissa. (Spanish)
Tacones Altos. (Spanish)
A Taste of Latex
Venus Infers
Villeinage
Wicked Women
Women Who Administer Punishment.
Zeitgeist International


PERSONALS, HOW TO MEET A DOMINANT WOMAN,
FINDING A TOP WOMAN

alt.personals.bondage
alt.personals.spanking
alt.sex.femdom FAQ. Jay Doubleyou.
The Bottoming Book. Dossie Easton. pp. 25-42
Bondage Tymes.
Direct Contact Guide to B&D.
Finding Your Dominant Woman. John Warren.
How to Find a Mistress. Uncle Wiggly.
Kinky Computers. John Warren.
The Loving Dominant. John Warren.
Professional Dominance. Mistress Cybelle.
Selecting a Professional Dominatrix. John Warren
SM101. Jay Wiseman. pp. 35-86



PHOTOGRAPHIC WORKS, ART BOOKS, FINE ART

Bob Flanagan: Supermasochist.
Erotic By Nature. David Steinberg.
Femalia. Joani Blank (Editor).
Fetish Girls. Eric Kroll.
Lady Laura.
Love Bites. Della Grace.
Noires. Richard Laillier.
Revelations. Housk Randall.
Ritual. Magazine.
Rituals of Love. Housk Randall.
See Also: Periodicals, Illustrations
Sexual Art. Michael Rosen.
Sexual Magic. Michael Rosen.
Sexual Portraits. Michael Rosen.
Skin Two. Magazine.
Spartacus Publications.
Transformations: Crossdressers. Mariette Allen.
Wheels and Curves.
Wolfgang Eichler, Erotic Photographs.
Yva Richard. Alexander Dupouy.


PROFESSIONAL DOMINATRIXES, MISTRESSES, PROSTITUTES

Being a Prostitute. Perkins and Bennett.
Call Me Mistress. Natalie Rhys.
Confessions and Experiences. Edith Cadivec.
The Correct Sadist. Terence Sellers.
Domina News. Newsletter.
Domination Directory International.
Dungeon Safety for the Professional. Jay Wiseman.
Eros: The Meaning of My Life. Edith Cadivec.
Good Girls/Bad Girls. Laurie Bell.
A Guide to the Correction of Young Gentlemen. AK-S.
The House of Pain. Monique Von Cleef.
LBW (Leather, Bondage & Whips) Magazine
Mistress Clare.
Mistress Leah LaFleur.
Nothing Personal. Donald McRae.
Professional Dominance. Mistress Cybelle.
The Sacred Prostitute. Nancy Qualis-Corbet.
Screwing the System. Anne McClintock.
Selecting a Professional Dominatrix. Mentor Series.
Sexplicitly Yours. Gloria Walker.
Sex Work. Frederique Delacoste.
Tied Up With Love. Jeanette Luther.
Whips and Kisses. Mistress Jacqueline.
Unnatural Acts. Susan Shellogg.
Working Girls. Neil Philip.



PYSCHIATRY, PSYCHOLOGY

Against Sadomasochism. Robin Linden.
Bonds of Love. Jessica Benjamin.
The Castration of Oedipus. Carla Ferstman.
The Correct Sadist. Terence Sellers.
Coldness and Cruelty. Gilles Deleuze.
Encyclopedia of Unusual Sex Practices. Brenda Love.
Erotic Power. Gini Scott.
Erotic Power Play. William Henkin.
The Fantasy Game. Peter Dally.
Frame Analysis. Erving Goffman.
Journey of the Heart. John Welwood.
Of Love and Lust. Theodor Reik.
Love Maps. John Money.
Masochism. Robert A. Glick, Editor. 1988.
Masochism: A Jugian View. Lyn Cowan.
My Private Life. Mistress Nan.
The Myth of Women's Masochism. Paula Caplan. 1985.
The Pleasure Principle. Sigmund Freud.
Sadismus, Masochismus, Flagellantismus. Walter Braun.
Sadomasochism. Suzanne Schad-Somers.
S&M: Studies in Sadomasochsim. Thomas Weinberg.
Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns. Philip Miller.
A Taste for Pain. Maria Marcus.
Ties That Bind. Guy Baldwin.


RELIGION

alt.religion.sexuality
alt.religion.wicca
Crone-l crone-request@smartdocs.com.
(bree@smartdocs.com)
Masochism: A Jugian View. Lyn Cowan.
See Also: Goddess Worship, Occult, Spirituality
Service of Mankind Church.


ROLEPLAYING, POWER EXCHANGE GAMES, SM GAMES

Different Loving. Gloria Brame.
Doing It For Daddy. Pat Califia (Editor).
Erotic Power Play. Willian Henkin.
Fantascenes. Lady Tanith.
Maid to Order. Anne McClintock.
My Private Live. Mistress Nan.
Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns. Philip Miller.
Sensuous Magic. Pat Califia.
SM101. Jay Wiseman.
Some Women. Laura Antoniou (Editor)
Ties That Bind. Guy Baldwin.
Victor Bruno's Handbook for Slaves. Miss Kay (Editor)
Sensuality, Senses, Erotic Sensuality
A Natural History of the Senses. Diane Ackerman.
Plaisirs d'Amour. Elizabeth Nash.
The Sense of Smell. Roy Bedichek.
Touching. Ashley Montague.
The Wicked Hand. Titian Beresford.


SEXUALITY, SEXUAL RELATIONS, PASSION, LUST

The Clitoral Kiss. Kenneth Stubbs.
Encyclopedia of Unusual Sex Practices. Brenda Love.
Erotic Fantasies. Phyllis Kronhausen.
Femalia. Joni Blank (Editor).
For Yourself. Lonnie Barbach.
Good Vibrations - Books and Videos
Journal of Erotica. Magazine.
New Joy of Sex. Alex Comfort.
Rituals of Love. Housk Randall.
Sex For One. Betty Dodson.
Sexual Dissidence. Jonathan Dollimore.
Sexual Personae. Camille Paglia.
Talk Dirty to Me. Sallie Tisdale.
The Wicked Hand. Titian Beresford.
Women on Top. Nancy Friday.


SOCIOLOGICAL, CULTURAL, LEATHER CULTURE,
THE PERV SCENE

Against Nature. Jeffrey Weeks.
The Best of Skin Two. Tim Woodward, Editor.
The Castration of Oedipus. Carla Ferstman.
Erotic Power. Gini Scott.
Leatherfolk. Mark Thompson, Editor.
Maid to Order. Anne McClintock.
Public Sex: The Culture of Radical Sex. Pat Califia.
Rituals of Love. Ted Polhemus.
Sadism and Masochism. Thomas S. Weinberg
See Also: Periodicals, Clothing, Sexuality
The Social Organization of Sexual Risk. John Alan Lee.
Ties That Bind. Guy Baldwin.
Urban Aboriginals. Geoff Mains.


SPIRITUALITY, GODDESS WORSHIP, RELIGION

Circles, Groves and Sanctuaries. Pauline Campanelli.
Goddess. Magazine.
Goddess in Everywoman. Jean S. Bolen.
Gospel of the Goddess. Pamela Suffield.
Kali! Death of Ego Ritual. amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
Kali, the Feminine Force. Ajit Mookerjec.
Longing for Darkness. Cina Galland.
Masturbating Without Orgasm. Margo Woods.
Mothers and Amazons. Helen Diner.
The Once and Future Goddess. Elenor Gadon.
Return of the Goddess. Elizabeth Cunningham.
See Also: Occult, Fetish, Religion, Goddess Worship
A Woman's Book of Rituals .... Barbara Ardindger.


TOP, MISTRESS, DOMINANT, SADIST, SUPERIOR

The Correct Sadist. Terence Sellers.
The Masters Manual. Jack Rinella.
My Private Life. Mistress Nan.
The Topping Book. Dossie Easton and Lady Green



TV SHOWS, TELEVISION

The Avengers. Emma Peel played by Diana Rigg.
1965-1968.
Planet Earth. Directed by Marc Daniels. Produced by
Gene Roddenberry.
Xena (1996)
Send me your suggestions.



VIDEOS - SOURCES, PRODUCERS, DISTRIBUTORS

Executive Imports International.
Fantastic Books.
Good Vibrations.
Leda Productions.
Learning the Ropes. Ona Zee: http:/www.onazee.com
Mistress Sandy.
New Esoteric Press. See "Dominant Mystique"
Pharaoh Publishing: Goddess Series.
Redemption Videos, Ritual World.
Shadow Lane Products. See "Stand Corrected"
See Also: Films,
The X Rated Videotape Guide. Robert Rimmer.



VIOLENCE, SADISM, NON-CONSENSUAL VIOLENCE, CRIME

Bad Girls Do It! Michael Newton.
Countess in Red. Leopold von Sacher-Masoch.
The Sadeian Woman. Angela Carter.
S&M: The Last Taboo. Caroline Greene.
Sadomasochism in Everyday Life. Lynn Chancer.



WATER SPORTS, UROLANGIA, TOILET SCENES

Anal Pleasure and Health. Jack Morin.
Encyclopedia of Unusual Sex Practices. Brenda Love.
Fetish Times. Newspaper.
Leatherman's Handbook II. Larry Townsend
On the Safe Edge. Trevor Jacques.
Toilet Service (Fiction). bhowell@ismi.net
Trust: The Hand Book. Bert Herman.
Scatalogic Rites of the World. J.G. Bourke.
Urban Aboriginals. Geoff Mains.



WWW PAGES, WEB PAGES, HTML DOCUMENTS,
HYPERTEXT


Go to BDSM Bookmark, By Mistress Blanca and Peter,
http://www.viaverde.com/sex/




++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++




ABOUT "THE DOMINATRIX IN PRINT AND OTHER MEDIA"
(TDiPaOM)


Another Greenway Searchware Tool for the NetAge


"The Dominatrix in Print and Other Media: An Annotated Bibliography
and Subject Index." (TdiPaOM),
E-Mail: viaverde@ix.netcom.com
Web Page: http://www.viaverde.com/sex/
Version 4.9, 6/1/96.
135K, 90 pages, Times New Roman, 14pt, W.P. 6.1 .wpd format.


Former Title: "The Dominant Female in Print and Media." Prepared by
Mistress Blanca and Peter at viaverde@netcom.com, Green Way, c
1994 - 1995.


Why the change in title in Version 3.7 of this work from "The
Dominant Female in Print and Media" to the "Dominatrix in Print and
Other Media?" This annotated bibliography has always stressed the
sexually dominant woman, BDSM activities, Femme Tops, and erotica
or pornography featuring the Leather Culture and the Dominatrix. It
has tried not to exclude nonsexual Female Supremacy and D/s issues
and outlooks, or feminist perspectives; however, these topics are more
than adequately covered in many other excellent resource guides on the
Net and elsewhere. Since the topic of the "Dominant Female" is more
general, and we are posting to alt.sex.femdom, we have chosen a more
restrictive term "Dominatrix" to represent the sexually dominant
woman (nonprofessional and professional) in this BDSM context.


Slightly different versions of TDiPaOM have been posted to the
Internet newsgroup alt.sex.femdom, as follows: 10/1/94, 11/1/94,
12/1/94, 1/1/95, 2/1/95, 3/1/95, 4/1/95, 5/1/95, 6/1/95, 7/15/95,
11/1/95 12/1/95, 1/1/96, 2/1/96, 3/1/96, 3/15/96, 4/1/96, 5/1/96, and
6/1/96. TDiPaOM was posted to the alt.sex.bondage newsgroup on or
about the 15th in 11/95, 12/95, 1/96, 3/96, and 6/96; or, to the
alt.sex.spanking newsgroup on the 15th in 10/95, 4/96. On 2/20/96,
DiPaOM was approved for posting to alt.answers and news.answers by
Pam Greene.



++++++++++++++++++++++
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If you cannot download this very large file with your
newsreader, then some version of the file called "The Dominatrix in
Print and Other Media" *MIGHT* be found for FREE (for those that
can afford the luxury of a pc workstation, and telephone and ISP fees,
and the time to fit in another hobby, etc.) Anyway, look for the
ascii.txt file of TDiPaOM for a "free" download at these sites:


a) Try the Society for Human Sexuality (SHS) Electronic Library,
http://weber.u.washington.edu/~sfpse/

b) Compuserve users might try to find this bibliography in the
HSX200 Forum, in the Variations II Section, according to Katherine
Hawks.

c) You can try fetching TDiPaOM by email from the Femsuprem
Archives, if you subscribe to the Femsupremacy mail list, by sending
an email message as follows:

TO: femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com
SUBJECT: archive get resources/media.


d) WWW Pages Come and Go ...... But, Try:

http://www.viaverde.com/sex/
http://humanitas.ucsb.edu/users/raley/cyberporn.html
http://nyx10.cs.du.edu.8001/~mstone/home.html
http://weber.u.washington.edu/~sfpse/
http://www.frontiernet.com/~patches/
http://www.tpe.com
http://www.casti.com/sm/publications/books/femdomlit.txt


e) Try a gopher unix.tpe.com or URL http://www.tpe.com, Menu
Down 2. SM, Leather and Fetish Community Outreach/, 3. Online SM,
Leather and Fetish Resources/, 1. Usenet Newsgroups/, 7.
alt.sex.femdom/, select "The Dominatrix in Print and Other Media."
Download to your email or home directory. Try URL:
http://www.tpe.com. This service provided by The Power Exchange,
and maintained by Leonard. {Out of order lately}

f) Try the alt.answers or news.answers archives. Do an ftp to
rtfm.mit.edu and look in directory /pub/usenet/alt.sex.femdom.


You can always reach us by the great U.S. Postal service.
Where: Green Way Research, P.O. Box 92074, City of Industry, CA
91715-2074. You can send us letters, articles, videotapes, good stuff,
newspapers, books, flyers, announcements, audiotapes, CD's, goodies,
gifts, etc..



This document (TDiPaOM) is copyrighted, c 1994 - 1996, by the
holders of the Internet account: viaverde@ix.netcom.com and
viaverde@netcom.com (Green Way). It may be freely redistributed in
its entirety, as is, provided that this notice, and the authors' names, are
not removed. Please notify us if you are distributing this document via
a WWW Page, gopher, BBS, CD, newsletter or archive; so that we
might refer users to your source. This document may not be sold for
profit or incorporated in commercial documents without the written
permission of the copyright holder. This document is provided as is
without any express or implied warranty.






MB & sp, viaverde@ix.netcom.com, http://www.viaverde.com/sex/
TdiPaOM, Version 4.9, 6/1/96
Working File: c:\w6sm\dipmas.wpd
History File: c:\w6sm\dip49g.wpd
Internet ascii.txt File: c:\em\tdipaom.txt

Last Update: May 31, 1996 12:05 a.m. By Blanca

--=====================_833649007==_
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Green Way Research
E-mail: viaverde@ix.netcom.com
Web Page: http://www.viaverde.com

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------------------------------

Content-Type: text/plain

femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 87

Today's Topics:
[Fwd: Re: can't be there]
Crime and punishment (re: Prisoners rights)
Sexuality & ADHD
Re: Prisoners rights.
the demise of Andrew

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 01 Jun 1996 09:40:51 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: [Fwd: Re: can't be there]
Message-ID: <31B07293.1D79@tiac.net
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------1C5E21387DBF"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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This is long...but explains what is going on today for Stand for the
Children.
Patricia

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STAND FOR CHILDREN FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS (FAQ)
This version was updated on May 31, 1996

Thank you for your interest in Stand for Children Day! This FAQ should
answer most of your questions about Stand for Children Day, its
message and how you can get involved. If the answers to your questions
are not on this FAQ, please see below how to obtain more information
via e-mail, phone or post.

If you have WORLD WIDE WEB access, our web site is the best place
to find updated information on travel information, site maps and
endorsing organizations. Visit us on the Web at

http://www.stand.org

This FAQ answers the following questions:

1. What is Stand for Children Day?
2. Who is involved in Stand for Children?
3. Is the Stand an effort to build support for a partisan political
agenda?
4. How will the Stand for Children make a lasting difference?
5. How can I come to Stand for Children and where can I stay?
6. What will happen on June 1?
7. What can I do if I can't make it to Washington DC on June 1?
8. What local Stand activities are happening in my area?
9. I'm with the media, do I need press credentials?
10. I want to volunteer on June 1, where should I go?
11. What other information is available electronically?
12. How can I get in touch with the Stand for Children Office?


1. WHAT IS STAND FOR CHILDREN DAY?
--------------------------------------------------
A national day of commitment to children.

A non-partisan call to action at a critical moment in our nation's
history; the last national election year of the 20th century; the eve
of a new millennium when our nation's legacy is at stake; a time when
the decisions we now make will shape the future for our children and
our nation in the coming century.

A day for Americans to gather and affirm our responsibility as
individuals, families, communities, and as a national community for
improving the quality of life of children.

A day for Americans of every race, age, region, income, and faith to
unite in Washington, DC as a national community in support of children.

A day to affirm what unites us rather than what divides us: a desire
to raise healthy, educated, and moral children.

A day for us to celebrate children and those who struggle every day
to raise them well.

A day to send a message to political, business and cultural leaders
that they must do no harm to children and that they should make it
easier rather than harder for families to raise children.

A day where parents and grandparents, aunts and uncles, big brothers
and big sisters, students and educators, advocates and nurturers
will commit ourselves to doing better for children and commit to
holding our cultural, business and political leaders responsible for
doing more for children.

A day to speak in one voice: "Leave No Child Behind!"


2. WHO IS INVOLVED IN STAND FOR CHILDREN DAY?
---------------------------------------------
Stand for Children Day was the idea of Marian Wright Edelman, founder
and president of the Children's Defense Fund, an organization that has
for almost twenty-five years provided a voice for children in
Washington DC. Stand for Children is a separate non-profit
organization with broad-based support in every corner of the country.
So far, over 3,700 national, state and local groups which represent
tens of millions of Americans from every walk of life have endorsed
this day of moral commitment to children. And the list continues to
grow. To receive a list of endorsing organizations via e-mail,
send an email message to
that this a large file-a list of over 3,700 organizations which your e-mail
software may break into smaller files.


3. IS THE STAND FOR CHILDREN AN EFFORT TO BUILD SUPPORT FOR A
PARTISAN POLITICAL AGENDA?
-------------------------------------------------------
June 1st will be a day of spiritual and community renewal. It will be
a day of commitment to children, not a partisan political day.
Americans who care about children are coming as parents and
grandparents, aunts and uncles, big brothers and big sisters, students
and educators, nurturers and providers, not as "Republicans" or
"Democrats" or "Independents." And when they go back home, we hope
that Americans of every persuasion will insist that local and national
political leaders do no harm to children and take positive steps to
support them.

No politicians or candidates are invited to speak at Stand for
Children Day. Of course, if politicians want to come as parents they
are welcome to do so. Supporting children and making it easier rather
than harder for families struggling to raise them is not a partisan
issue. Americans agree that every child should be given the chance to
realize his or her God-given potential, and that no child should grow
up hungry, sick, unsafe, or uneducated. We are trying to build a new
spirit of caring for children that transcends party labels or racial,
regional or economic boundaries.


4. HOW WILL THE STAND FOR CHILDREN MAKE A LASTING DIFFERENCE?
-------------------------------------------------------------
The June 1, 1996 Stand For Children will make a lasting difference
if those of us who care about children and are concerned about
their future recommit ourselves to improving the quality of
childrens lives. Stand For Children focused on the personal,
positive steps that each and every one of can take to make a
difference in a childs life and improve the quality of life for
every child in America.

The Stand For Children Citizens Action Guide available on our
web site and in printed form (see # 12) has a similar focus.
It describes ways in which we can all work with or on behalf
of children. If we, as individuals, family and community
members and citizens, stand for children every day by becoming
better parents, by volunteering, by insisting that our
congregations, civic and community groups, schools and businesses
do more for children, and by holding our leaders to a much
higher standard for children by asking what they have done for
children and what they plan to do for children -- the June 1,
1996 will indeed be a turning point for our children and for
our nation.

By July 1, Stand for Children through our web site and our
toll free number will be a source of practical information to
help you help children in a variety of ways. Our site,
http://www.stand.org, will also feature individuals, groups,
and communities across the nation that are taking a stand.
Please stay in touch and let us know how you, your civic
or community group, congregation, school or place of work or
community is standing for children in order to inspire others
and help us maintain the momentum created by Stand For Children.


5. HOW CAN I COME TO STAND FOR CHILDREN DAY & WHERE CAN I STAY?
-------------------------------------------------------------------
For information about travel, directions, maps, parking, accommodations
and the Metro, please send an email message to our autoresponder account


For tourist information, maps of the Metro and DC area, you should also
visit the Washington DC Visitor's Bureau' s web site
(http://www.washington.org).

6. WHAT WILL HAPPEN ON JUNE 1?
- ----------------------------
This outline of the program for Stand For Children Day is
subject to change without notice.

9 am - 12 pm
Child, Youth & Family Forum (at the southeast end of the Reflecting Pool)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Issue tents will provide information from endorsing organizations on
issues of concern to children and their families. Educational exhibits,
performances and activities will all be focusing on children's and
families' needs.

9 am - 12 pm
Children's Stage (as part of Family Forum)
------------------------------------------
Activities on the Children's Stage, specifically designed for children
ages 10 and under, will include interactive demonstrations designed to
deliver messages on safety, self esteem, drug abuse and violence
prevention. There will be songs, dance, and stories to inspire and
engage the whole family. Singer, Melissa Manchester, and Bobby McAdams,
the 11-year-old co-star of the NBC sitcom, Minor Adjustments, will be
the hosts. Characters from the PBS television show, Puzzle Place, and
National Wildlife Federation's ranger Rick will be featured along with
children reading poetry, children's musicians, and youth dance troupes
from around the country.

9 am - 12 pm & 3 pm - 5 pm
Youth Stage: Sylvan Theater (at the south side of the Washington Monument)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Young people will host a "speak out," along with musical and theatrical
performances on issues and concerns to teenagers and young adults. Fox
TV's New York Undercover stars, Malik Yoba and 13-year-old George Gore II,
will co-host along with Wilson Cruz from the television show, My So-Called
Life, and other celebrity hosts from the sports and entertainment world.
"City of Peace' and Latin jazz band, "Caribe Son," will be among the
powerful expressions by and for teenagers focusing on how they can create
the change they seek once they leave the Mall.

12 pm
Children's March (Memorial Bridge to the Lincoln Memorial)
----------------------------------------------------------
Ten thousand children from across America - Girl Scouts, boys clubs,
church choirs, young people who have "beaten the odds" - march to the
Lincoln Memorial.

1 pm - 3 pm
Main Program at the Lincoln Memorial
An interfaith service, a 2,000 voice children's choir, nationally known
presenters, a moment when all Americans are asked to stand up for
children, and inspirational speakers calling for greater personal,
family, and community commitment to improving the quality of children's
lives.

7. WHAT CAN I DO IF I CAN'T MAKE IT TO WASHINGTON DC ON JUNE 1?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Visit our web site on June 1st to see coverage of the event, email us your
support and hear from people Standing For Children. Visit us after the event
to see what happened and to hear audio clips of the day's events courtesy of
WebActive (www.webactive.com).

* Visit our web site to read our Citizen's Action Guide, which is a guide we
can all use to Stand for Children every day. You can also contact your
local endorsing organizations to see how you can contribute to the work
they are doing in your community.

* See #4 above as well

8. WHAT LOCAL STAND ACTIVITIES ARE HAPPENING IN MY AREA?
----------------------------------------------------------
Though the focus of the Stand For Children Office in DC has been to
get people to come to Washington DC to stand for children, throughout
the country, kick-off rallys and Stands are being organized. As we learn of
them, we are posting them on our web site. If your organization is
coordinating events in your state in conjunction with Stand for Children,
please let us know by sending an email to <103661.222@compuserve.com.

9. I'M WITH THE MEDIA, DO I NEED PRESS CREDENTIALS?
----------------------------------------------------
Yes, in order to have access to the press area, you will need press
credentials which can be obtained from the Press Tent on the Lincoln
Memorial grounds

10. I WANT TO VOLUNTEER ON JUNE 1ST, WHERE SHOULD I GO?
----------------------------------------------------------
If you want to volunteer at Stand For Children, and you have not yet
registered as a volunteer, you can come on June 1st to our volunteer
tent nearest the Lincoln Memorial, south at the Reflecting Pool as
early as 5 am.


11. WHAT OTHER INFORMATION IS AVAILABLE ELECTRONICALLY?
------------------------------------------------------

WORLD WIDE WEB at www.stand.org

Send an email to one of our autoresponder accounts, to receive
the following information via e-mail.

standendorser@mailback.com
List of more than 3,300 organizations endorsing Stand for Children
(Note: this is a large document, which your email software may split up
into several messages)

standtravel@mailback.com
Transportation & Accommodation Information

If you received this e-mail from standinfo@mailback.com, you will be
placed automatically on our mailing list for future mailings. Your
e-mail address will not be accessible to other recipients. If you
or someone you know would like to be added to our list, please send
an email to <103661.222@CompuServe.com with "Add to list" in the
subject line. If you do not want to be placed on this list, please
send an email to <103661.222@CompuServe.com and put "remove from list"
in the subject line.

If you have a Web site and would like to link to our home page, please
link to
purple trademark logo on your page as a graphic and let us know that
you have linked!

12. HOW CAN I GET IN TOUCH WITH THE STAND FOR CHILDREN OFFICE?
-------------------------------------------------------------
Stand for Children
PO Box 75358
Washington DC 20013-5358
(800) 633 4032

Email address <103661.222@compuserve.com

http://www.stand.org


--------------1C5E21387DBF--


the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 07:27:17 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Crime and punishment (re: Prisoners rights)
Message-Id: <199606011427.HAA15156@dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com

Society must protect itself but some anti-social impulses are right and
proper. When society itself is perverse, decent people will be
considered criminal. Example: Arabian women are persecuted/attacked
for going unveiled, and society there permits it. The veil and the
attacks on women are the true abomination, but in that society a woman
who resists the veil is considered bad, perverse, sick, criminal.

Social expectations and conditions determine criminal behavior. Change
society, and what is considered criminal also changes. Considering the
often arbitrary nature of "crime", it behooves us to be merciful to
criminals in our punishments.

Some things are universal: it's always unacceptable to threaten/attack
innocent lives. But is a fetus a life? People of good will disagree.
In some realms abortion is murder, in others it's freeing the mother of
an unacceptable presence. In war it's considered acceptable to kill to
free a land of unacceptable intruders...it's considered acceptable to
kill convicted murders in some places in the world, which frees the
land of an unacceptable person, but what if an innocent is convicted
and sentenced to die?

When refugees/immigrants flee for their very lives to our land and are
turned away, they are in many cases turning to face death. This is
legal, because it is society's will. These people might all be
innocent, even desireable, but no, off they go to their uncertain fate.
It's the law. But the law is what we make it.
--
Laura Goodwin

" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."

(William Shakespeare)

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 07:43:16 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Sexuality & ADHD
Message-Id: <199606011443.HAA05805@dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com

I'll bounce off the ropes and into center ring to say that sex for me
is certainly effected by ADD/ADHD, in my case by either interfering
with my ability to enjoy myself, or by making me hyperfocus
(preferable).

I can't hyperfocus at will. Fully mutual sex is elusive as hell for
me. I compensate by taking turns...I work on my pleasure/orgasm first,
then take care of my partner, or vice-versa. Sometimes I just do my
partner, then collapse. Sometimes I just demand relief/satisfaction,
then collapse. I'm goal oriented: I get/give and orgasm, then I'm
outta there! The thought of wallowing in bed for hours "making love"
seems oppressive to me. Multiple orgasms!? I'm lucky to tear *one*
off!

I have learned over the years how to coax out the hyperfocus magic by
dressing sex up and putting on a show. All the guys at "Wild Bill's
Leathers" know my name. ;) Fortunately, my hubby is along for the ride,
and when it's good, it's GRRRReat! Alas, I have trouble getting worked
up to get started sometimes. Sometimes the thought of breaking out the
toys and organizing a sex-fest oppresses me. Sometimes I just
masturbate so I can get some sleep.

If I have had good sex and everybody is happy, I'm so overjoyed that I
leap out of bed and run it over and over in my mind pacing like a lion
in a cage while my partner snoozes peacefully through the night.

--
Laura Goodwin

" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."

(William Shakespeare)

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Jun 1996 01:37:30 +0000
From: Christine & David Stevenson
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Prisoners rights.
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960602013730.007f57f4@mail.telepac.pt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

:::bowing::: Why thank you! :)

Do I get a tiara and an armband? :)
--
Laura Goodwin

You mean you want both! ;)

David Stevenson.

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Jun 1996 01:37:33 +0000
From: Christine & David Stevenson
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Cc: andrew@packet.net
Subject: the demise of Andrew
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960602013733.007068f4@mail.telepac.pt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I obviously wasn't following the arguments and mischievous remarks closely
enough.

It was my impression he was just trying to brighten up what was becoming a
very heavy series of discussions.

Perhaps his techniques were not appropriate to this list, it is not for me
to say.

I would just like to say that I for one am sorry to see him go. He seemed a
pretty reasonable guy.

David Stevenson.

the subject "help".

--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #87
***********************************************

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Content-Type: text/plain

femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 88

Today's Topics:
Estrogen / Testosterone
femsupremacy politicians after the revolution
Re: femsupremacy politicians after the revolution
off the original topic of women who rape
Re: Living with ADD
Trust. (Was: Re: off the original topic of women who rape)
Fwd: Femdom Science Fiction: Planet of the Amazons

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 04:46:31 +0200
From: jaquet@dial.eunet.ch (lanoline)
To: femsuprem@renaissoft.com
Subject: Estrogen / Testosterone
Message-Id: <199606020246.EAA15007@chsun.eunet.ch
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Mesdames,
My niece being aware of my interests in Gynarchy e-mailed me the following text.
You probably knew it but i thought that you could appreciate it.

Your, lanoline (property of Mistress Danielle, petticoated male)

The truth about estrogen vs. testosterone

WOMEN SPEAK IN ESTROGEN AND MEN LISTEN IN TESTOSTERONE RELATIONSHIPS: First
of all, a man does not call it a relationship -- he refers to it as "that
time when me and Suzie were doing it on a semi-regular basis". When a
relationship ends, a woman will cry and pour her heart out to her
girlfriends, and she will write a poem titled "All Men Are Idiots". Then she
will get on with her life. A man has a little more trouble letting go. Six
months after the break-up, at 3:00 a.m. on a Saturday night, he will call
and say, "I just wanted to let you know you ruined my life, and I'll never
forgive you, and I hate you, and you're a total floozy. But I want you to
know that there's always a chance for us." This is known as the "I Hate You
/ I Love You" drunken phone call, and 99% if all men have made at least
once. There are community colleges that offer courses to help men get over
this need; alas, these classes rarely prove effective.

SEX: Women prefer 30-40 minutes of foreplay. Men prefer 30-40 seconds of
foreplay. Men consider driving back to her place as part of the foreplay.

MATURITY: Women mature much faster than men. Most 17-year old females can
function as adults. Most 17-year old males are still trading baseball cards
and giving each other wedgies after gym class. This is why high school
romances rarely work out.

MAGAZINES: Men's magazines often feature pictures of naked women. Women's
magazines also feature pictures of naked women. This is because the female
body is a beautiful work of art, while the male body is lumpy and hairy and
should not be seen by the light of day. Men are turned on at the sight of a
naked woman's body. Most naked men elicit laughter from women.

HANDWRITING: To their credit, men do not decorate their penmanship. They
just chicken-scratch. Women use scented, colored stationary and they dot
their "i's" with circles and hearts. Women use ridiculously large loops in
their "p's" and "g's". It is a royal pain to read a note from a woman. Even
when she's dumping you, she'll put a smiley face at the end of the note.

COMEDY: Let's say a small group of men and women are in a room, watching
television, and an episode of the Three Stooges comes on. Immediately, the
men will get very excited; they will laugh uproariously, and even try to
imitate the actions of Curly, man's favorite Stooge. The women will roll
their eyes and groan and wait it out.

BATHROOMS: A man has six items in his bathroom -- a toothbrush, shaving
cream, razor, a bar of Dial soap, and a towel from the Holiday Inn. The
average number of items in the typical woman's bathroom is 437. A man would
not be able to identify most of these items.

GROCERIES: A woman makes a list of things she needs and then goes out to the
store and buys these things. A man waits till the only items left in his
fridge are half a lime and a beer. Then he goes grocery shopping. He buys
everything that looks good. By the time a man reaches the checkout counter,
his cart is packed tighter than the Clampett's car on Beverly Hillbillies.
Of course, this will not stop him from going to the 10-items-or-less lane.

SHOES: When preparing for work, a woman will put on a Mondi wool suit , then
slip on Reebok sneakers. She wil carry her dress shoes in a plastic bag from
Saks. When a woman gets to work, she will put on her dress shoes. Five
minutes later, she will kick them off because her feet are under the desk. A
man will wear the same pair of shoes all day.

LEG WARMERS: Leg warmers are sexy. A woman, even if she's walking the dog or
doing the dishes, is allowed to wear leg warmers. She can wear them any time
she wants. A man can only wear leg warmers if he is auditioning for the
"Gimme the Ball" number in "A Chorus Line."

GOING OUT: When a man says he is ready to go out, it means he is ready to go
out. When a woman says she is ready to go out, it means she WILL be ready to
go out, as soon as she finds her earrings, finishes putting on her makeup...

CATS: Women love cats. Men say they love cats, but when women aren't
looking, men kick cats.

OFFSPRING: Ah, children. A woman knows all about her children. She knows
about dentist appointments and soccer games and romances and best friends
and favorite foods and secret fears and hopes and dreams. A man is vaguely
aware of some short people living in the house.

LOW BLOWS: Let's say a man and a woman are watching a boxing match on TV.
One of the boxers is felled by a low blow. The woman says, "Oh, gee. That
must have hurt." The man groans and doubles over, and actually FEELS the pain.

DRESSING UP: A woman will dress up to: go shopping, water the plants, empty
the garbage, answer the phone, read a book, get the mail. A man will dress
up for: weddings, funerals.

DAVID LETTERMAN: Men think David Letterman is the funniest man on the face
of the Earth. Women think he is a mean, semi-dorky guy who always has a bad
haircut.

LAUNDRY: Women do laundry every couple of days. A man will wear every
article of clothing he owns, including his surgical pants that were hip
about eight years ago, before he will do his laundry. When he is finally out
of clothes, he will wear a dirty sweatshirt inside out, rent a U-Haul and
take his mountain of clothes to the laundromat. Men always expect to meet
beautiful women at the laundromat. This is a myth perpetuated by re-runs of
old episodes of "Love, American Style."

WEDDINGS: When reminiscing about weddings, women talk about "the ceremony".
Men talk about "the bachelor party".

SOCKS: Men wear sensible socks. They wear standard white sweat socks. Women
wear strange socks. Socks that are cut way below the ankles, that have
pictures of clouds, that have a big fuzzy ball on the back.

NICKNAMES: If Gloria, Suzanne, Deborah and Michelle go out for lunch, they
will call each other Gloria, Suzanne, Deborah and Michelle. But if Mike,
Dave, Rob and Jack go out for a brewsky, they will affectionately refer to
each other as Bullet-Head, Godzilla, Peanut-Head and Useless.

EATING OUT: ... and when the check comes, Mike, Dave, Rob and Jack will each
throw in $20 bills, even though it's only for $22.50. None of them will have
anything smaller, and none will actually admit they want change back. When
the girls get their check, out come the pocket calculators.

MIRRORS: Men are vain; they will check themselves out in a mirror. Women are
ridiculous; they will check out their reflections in any shiny surface:
mirrors, spoons, store windows, Joe Garagiola's head.

MENOPAUSE: When a woman reached menopause, she goes through a variety of
complicated emotional, psychological, and biological changes. The nature and
degree of these changes varies with the individual. Menopause in a man
provokes a uniform reaction -- he buys aviator glasses, a snazzy French cap
and leather driving gloves, and goes shopping for a Porsche.

THE TELEPHONE: Men see the telephone as a communication tool. They use the
telephone to send short messages to other people. A woman can visit her
girlfriend for two weeks, and upon returning home, she will call the same
friend and they will talk for three hours.

DIRECTIONS: If a woman is out driving, and she finds herself in unfamiliar
surroundings, she will stop at a gas station and ask for directions. Men
consider this to be a sign of weakness. Men wil never stop and ask for
directions. Men will drive in a circle for hours, all the while saying
things like, "Looks like I've found a new way to get there." and, "I know
I'm in the general neighborhood. I recognize that 7-11 store."

ADMITTING MISTAKES: Women will sometimes admit making a mistake. The last
man who admitted he was wrong was General George Custer.

RICHARD GERE: Women like Richard Gere because he is sexy in a dangerous way.
Men hate Richard Gere because he reminds them of that slick guy who works at
the health club and dates only married women.

MADONNA: Same as above, but reversed. Same reason.

TOYS: Little girls love to play with toys. Then when they reach the age of
11 or 12, they lose interest. Men never grow out of their obsession with
toys. As they get older, their toys simply become more expensive and silly
and impractical. Examples of men's toys: little miniature TV's. Car phones.
Complicated juicers and blenders. Graphic equalizers.Small robots that serve
cocktails on command. Video games. Anything that blinks, beeps, and requires
at least 6 "D" batteries to operate.

PLANTS: A woman asks a man to water her plants while she is on vacation. The
man waters the plants. The woman comes home five or six days later to an
apartment full of dead plants. No one knows why this happens.

CAMERAS: Men take photography very seriously. They'll shell out $4000 for
state of the art equipment, and build dark rooms and take photography
classes. Women purchase Kodak Instamatics. Of course, women always end up
taking better pictures.

LOCKER ROOMS: In the locker room men talk about three things: money,
football, and women. They exaggerate about money, they don't know football
nearly as well as they think they do, and they fabricate stories about
women. Women talk about one thing in the locker -- sex. And not in abstract
terms, either. They are extremely graphic and technical, and they never lie.

GARAGES: Women use garages to park their cars and store their lawnmowers.
Men use garages for many things. They hang license plates in garages, they
watch TV in garages, and they build useless lopsided benches in garages.

MOVIES: Every actress in the history of movies has had to do a nude scene.
This is because every movie in the history of movies has been produced by a
man. The only actor who has ever appeared nude in the movies is Richard
Gere. This is another reason why men hate him.

JEWELRY: Women look nice when they wear jewelry. A man can get away with
wearing one ring and that's it. Any more than that and he will look like a
lounge singer named Vic.

SPORT ARENAS: Simply put, men can always find their way around stadiums and
arenas. The women usually end up following men.

TIME: When a woman says she'll be ready to go out in five more minutes,
she's using the same meaning of time as when a man says the football
games's just got five minutes left. Neither of them is counting time outs,
commercials, or replays.

CONVERSATION: Men need a good disagreement to get talking, e.g., "Wow, great
movie.", "What are you, nuts? No REAL cop would have an Uzi that size.",
"Well, maybe he got it because he knew about those Mafia guys", etc.
Women, not having this problem, try to initiate conversations with men by
saying something agreeable: "That garden by the roadside looks lovely." "Mm
hmm." Pause. "That was a good restaurant last night, wasn't it?" "Yeah."
Pause. And so on.

FRIENDS: Women on a girls' night out talk the whole time. Men on a boys'
night out say about twenty words all night, most of which are "Pass the
Doritos" or "Got any more beer?"

RESTROOMS: Men use restrooms for purely biological reasons. Women use
restrooms as social lounges. Men in a restrooms will never speak a word to
each other. Women who've never met will leave a restroom giggling together
like old friends. And never in the history of the world has a man excused
himself from a restaurant table by saying, "Hey, Tots, I was just about to
take a leak. Do you want to join me?"

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 02:23:00 -0500
From: sorceress@CYBEROTI.COM
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: femsupremacy politicians after the revolution
Message-ID:

FESeriously though, I got to the part where the reviewer thinks that Susan
FEShellogg/Mistress Sonya had Kissinger as a sub. It set me thinking, will our
FEpost fem-supremacist revolutionary leaders start frequenting such
FEprofessionals of the new 'weaker sex'.

I have had, as "sub" a "third pillar of the world" type of man, and I
took great pleasure in showing him his proper position in the Universe.
"Third pillar of the world" indeed! Meaningless when matched against a
goddess.
CybErotiComm Online

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 00:29:55 -0700
From: olskool@ix.netcom.com (Tony)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: femsupremacy politicians after the revolution
Message-Id: <199606020729.AAA17418@dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com

If women controlled the world, and all the politicians were female,
then submissive males wouldn't NEED to go to dominatrixes. They could
play the submissive role every day in real life. I think that would
be infinitely more arousing compared with playing the role only in the
bedroom.

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 13:37:53 -0400
From: Lonely2001@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: off the original topic of women who rape
Message-ID: <960602133753_405633883@emout15.mail.aol.com

In a message dated 96-06-01 00:08:20 EDT, you write:

A man who choose to be submissive, but a man forced into it is a different
story. I met a sub in Seattle, that when put into bondage (which was
consensual), was raped by a large number of people (men/women with
strap-ons and was not concensual). He has totally withdrawn from the
smbd community, isolated, and has so much anger (directed inward and
outward) that he cannot function. I suggested he go to a counselor,
but he is too embarrassed. I don't know the whole story because I don't
know who the Domme was, but it is too bad that it happened.

I am submissive. But I am deathly afraid of a situation like this. This fear
has spoiled more than one chance at finding a new owner...

Not sure why I wanted to relay thisinfo, it just came to mind when I read
this post...

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 13:38:01 -0400
From: Lonely2001@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Living with ADD
Message-ID: <960602133801_405633934@emout15.mail.aol.com

In a message dated 96-06-01 00:09:54 EDT, you write:


Someone else I know with ADD told me that if she had to have something
wrong with her, this was the thing because when
she gets going on something, she has this single-mindedness that helps
her finish things. OF COURSE, she said, it has to be something she likes
to do. She also mentioned that when she has sex, she focuses so totally
on it that her partners are in awe of her. ; ) Not such a bad thing.

Jet



You know, this is starting to sound familiar. I wonder if I might have ADD. I
think I will look some of this stuff up.

Damn, I'm learning something here. Who'd a thought it! (just joking! thanks,
Ladies!)

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Jun 96 20:22:57 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Trust. (Was: Re: off the original topic of women who rape)
Message-Id: <199606021821.UAA23672@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On Sun, 2 Jun 1996 13:37:53 -0400, Lonely2001@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 96-06-01 00:08:20 EDT, you write:

story. I met a sub in Seattle, that when put into bondage (which was
consensual), was raped by a large number of people (men/women with
strap-ons and was not concensual). He has totally withdrawn from the

I am submissive. But I am deathly afraid of a situation like this. This fear
has spoiled more than one chance at finding a new owner...

Do you mean that you have a problem when it comes to trusting a domme?

---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden


the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 02:06:50 -0700
From: olskool@ix.netcom.com (Tony)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Fwd: Femdom Science Fiction: Planet of the Amazons
Message-Id: <199606020906.CAA23335@dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com

---- Begin Forwarded Message

220 6294 <4orl46$kfh@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com article
Path: ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: olskool@ix.netcom.com (Tony)
Newsgroups: alt.sex.femdom,alt.amazon-women.admirers,alt.women.supremacy
Subject: Femdom Science Fiction: Planet of the Amazons
Date: 2 Jun 1996 08:58:46 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 58
Message-ID: <4orl46$kfh@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sdx-ca8-25.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Jun 02 3:58:46 AM CDT 1996
Xref: ix.netcom.com alt.sex.femdom:33278 alt.amazon-women.admirers:28425 alt.women.supremacy:6294

I am writing a novel about a highly technologically advanced planet
in which Amazon women rule over small, ditzy men. Men are nothing
but househusbands and maids, and women control the government, the
police, etc. The women are tall and pretty muscular, and the men
are kind of built the opposite: sort of like earth women only with a
penis and without breasts. Women do not have babies; there is
artificial insemination and babies develop in incubator vats. The
women control the technology (because they built it) and the men
don't even understand it. All the men do is take care of their
women and think about sex. Men don't wear dresses or skirts but
otherwise dress pretty similar to earth women -- what we would
consider quite feminine. Women don't wear dresses or skirts either
but dress in a way we would consider more masculine. Children are
raised in childrearing centers, by male nannies, who give much more
attention to the little girls. However, men and women do get
married. Couples remain childless for at least 10 years and then
might adopt children. In any event, 90% of married males stay
home to take care of their WIVES. There is a slight BDSM aspect to
this whole thing in that the men actually like their subordinate
status. The men feel that having a career would prevent them from
taking care of their wives. The only aspect of this planet where
men have power is in the home. Actually, within the home they
seem to have much more power than the women. The women earn the
money but the men spend it! Men can vote but don't run for office;
politics is very different anyway because leadership is more cooperative
than centered on individual personalities. There are prostitutes
of both sexes and wealthy househusbands whose wives are away on long
business trips can hire semi-professional women (like students working
part time); this is actually legal and even accepted by the wives.
When wives are away on trips, they can hire men (usually older
divorced men who have no other means of income) who work professionally.
There are no sanctions for the women but there are periodic crackdowns
on the male prostitutes. The technology of the planet is pretty
advanced; much more advanced than the earth's. Of course, women
designed and built it all. Sports are very popular. Children of
both sexes play sports up until about age 12, when men stop and
begin just looking at what the girls do. Adolescent and adult men
love sports as much as their female counterparts, but the men don't
participate; they just watch the women. Every teenage male dreams
of dating and marrying the attractive school basketball star.
After high school women either go to college or vocational school.
Men rarely attend college, although they may attend different
vocational schools. Although men reach maturity earlier, men usually
marry women a few years younger than themselves. In some ways,
sex between men and women is similar to on earth. Men usually
initiate. Men adore women's bodies and especially their strength
and power; so men's favorite parts of a woman's body are those which
symbolize her power: strong arms, shoulders; long legs, etc. Most
women have fairly large breasts but they don't function to give milk
and have little sexual significance except that they help distinguish
the sexes. Both sexes enjoy the physical aspect of sex, but for
the male a lot goes on in the mind, while for the female it is
mostly physical enjoyment. Men love female strength and like
rough sex with their partners, which allows them to feel and
experience that superior female strength. Men will actually provoke
women into rough sex. This is very much part of the culture.
Men really are the weaker sex and they like it that way.



---- End Forwarded Message

the subject "help".

--------------------------------
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***********************************************

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Content-Type: text/plain

femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 89

Today's Topics:
Fwd: Femdom Science Fiction: Planet of the Amazons
Fwd: Femdom Science Fiction: Planet of the Amazons
Re: Estrogen / Testosterone
Re: off the original topic of women who rape

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 07:50:29 -0700
From: olskool@ix.netcom.com (Tony)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Fwd: Femdom Science Fiction: Planet of the Amazons
Message-Id: <199606021450.HAA03541@dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com

---- Begin Forwarded Message

220 6297 <4oruvh$96v@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com article
Path: ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: olskool@ix.netcom.com (Tony)
Newsgroups: alt.sex.femdom,alt.women.supremacy
Subject: Femdom Science Fiction: Planet of the Amazons
Date: 2 Jun 1996 11:46:57 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 176
Message-ID: <4oruvh$96v@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sdx-ca8-25.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Jun 02 6:46:57 AM CDT 1996
Xref: ix.netcom.com alt.sex.femdom:33288 alt.women.supremacy:6297

I am writing a novel about a highly technologically advanced planet
in which Amazon women rule over small, ditzy men. Men are nothing
but househusbands and maids, and women control the government, the
police, etc. The women are tall and pretty muscular, and the men
are kind of built the opposite: sort of like earth women only with a
penis and without breasts. Women do not have babies; there is
artificial insemination and babies develop in incubator vats. The
women control the technology (because they built it) and the men
don't even understand it. All the men do is take care of their
women and think about sex. Men don't wear dresses or skirts but
otherwise dress pretty similar to earth women -- what we would
consider quite feminine. Women don't wear dresses or skirts either
but dress in a way we would consider more masculine. Children are
raised in childrearing centers, by male nannies, who give much more
attention to the little girls. However, men and women do get
married. Couples remain childless for at least 10 years and then
might adopt children. In any event, 90% of married males stay
home to take care of their WIVES. There is a slight BDSM aspect to
this whole thing in that the men actually like their subordinate
status. The men feel that having a career would prevent them from
taking care of their wives. The only aspect of this planet where
men have power is in the home. Actually, within the home they
seem to have much more power than the women. The women earn the
money but the men spend it! Men can vote but don't run for office;
politics is very different anyway because leadership is more cooperative
than centered on individual personalities. There are prostitutes
of both sexes and wealthy househusbands whose wives are away on long
business trips can hire semi-professional women (like students working
part time); this is actually legal and even accepted by the wives.
When wives are away on trips, they can hire men (usually older
divorced men who have no other means of income) who work professionally.
There are no sanctions for the women but there are periodic crackdowns
on the male prostitutes. The technology of the planet is pretty
advanced; much more advanced than the earth's. Of course, women
designed and built it all. Sports are very popular. Children of
both sexes play sports up until about age 12, when men stop and
begin just looking at what the girls do. Adolescent and adult men
love sports as much as their female counterparts, but the men don't
participate; they just watch the women. Every teenage male dreams
of dating and marrying the attractive school basketball star.
After high school women either go to college or vocational school.
Men rarely attend college, although they may attend different
vocational schools. Although men reach maturity earlier, men usually
marry women a few years younger than themselves. In some ways,
sex between men and women is similar to on earth. Men usually
initiate. Men adore women's bodies and especially their strength
and power; so men's favorite parts of a woman's body are those which
symbolize her power: strong arms, shoulders; long legs, etc. Most
women have fairly large breasts but they don't function to give milk
and have little sexual significance except that they help distinguish
the sexes. Both sexes enjoy the physical aspect of sex, but for
the male a lot goes on in the mind, while for the female it is
mostly physical enjoyment. Men love female strength and like
rough sex with their partners, which allows them to feel and
experience that superior female strength. Men will actually provoke
women into rough sex. This is very much part of the culture.
Men really are the weaker sex and they like it that way. Men are
very nurturing toward women and the idea of taking care of a woman
is very sexually arousing to a man. Therefore men do it simply as
a way of stimulating themselves. The more nurturing a man feels,
the more subservient he feels, and the more subservient he feels,
the more sexually excited he gets. So husbands pamper their wives
to feel subservient, and thus to get sexually aroused. Men are
not only physcially weaker, they are mentally inferior in some
ways. Women are much better at mathematics and science; they are
more rational and better analytical thinkers. Men are more emotional
(internally and externally) and more intuitive. Again, men are
usually the sexual intitiators and fantasize a lot more about sex
than women do. Men's fantasies usually center on the physical
aspects of women, however, like making love to a tall, strong, very
attractive female. (Most of the females are tall, strong, and
attractive anyway -- the average adult female is 6'0" tall.) Or,
males' fantasies will involve pampering such a female. On the
other hand women's fantasies (when they have them) usually center
on the sex act and having intercourse with a well-endowed male.
Women tend to judge men on the size of their penises. Penile
enhancement is common. There are very few jobs for males over the
age of 25 or so, putting great pressure on men to find a wife.
Without a wife to support him, a man can be forced into very hard
menial work, such as waitering for 12 hour days (men don't do work
which requires considerable physical strength). Better off
unmarried men might find jobs as secretaries, nurses or teachers.
There is no pressure on women to marry early, so there is great
competition among men for female attention. Men like to marry
women between 3 and 7 years younger, however. Many men use the
extra time working as live-in nannies in childrearing centers,
for children from birth up to about 15 or 16 years old. Older
children have either been adopted or live in supervised dorms.
Men are aroused visually, and appreciate female beuaty. Women do
not have masculine features (despite their strength); instead,
they have feminine, but Amazonically feminine, features: the
ideal is big, strong, healthy, and stunningly attractive in a
powerful, yet still pretty, way. Men don't have to worry much
because they are surrounded by such beautiful women. On the other
hand, women do not assess males by their looks. Women judge men
basically by two things: 1) how good they are in bed (including
penile size) and 2) their honesty. Most women are not even
looking for a good househusband who can cook and clean better than
the others, because women aren't too picky. Women expect men
to do these things, but men attempt to excel at them for their
own reasons. Physically, men have the contours of the most
feminine earth women, except they have a penis instead of a vagina,
and have no breasts. Men also have facial and body hair, while
women lack hair on their faces and most of their bodies. Men
almost never grow beards but frequently grow a mustache. Men
usually wear their hair long and straight (while women usually
wear their hair medium-length and attractively styled). Men
like to dress in sexy clothes: tight pants and high heels are
common. Men will also wear clothes that reveal strategic areas
like the midriff. Men wear lingerie at night (but not gowns or
dresses). A lot of what men wear is black lace. As underwear,
men wear a kind of cross between a G-string and a jockstrap
(a jockstring?) Women's dress is more practical, but is
definitely designed to look attractive and enhance a woman's looks.
Straight-leg pants are popular, as are vests and flat-soled shoes.
Men design virtually all of the clothes for both sexes. Women's
major outlet of individuality is their hair: they enjoy styling
it, using headbands and ties, etc. For casual wear, women wear
a lot of shorts, and very short shorts are popular (probably
because men design their clothes and men love women's long legs!)
Athletic clothes are popular with women. For work, straight-leg
dress pants, shoes, a white shirt and short vest. Men buy the
clothes for their girlfriends and wives and tell them what to
wear.
The level of technology is very high. There are orbital
cities in space, spaceplanes, sky-cars, force-fields, lasers,
maglev monorails, etc. Women produce all of the technology
because only women understand what makes it work. Men's attitude
is that that they not only don't understand the technology, they
can't understand it because their brains aren't wired for "all
that math". Men are in constant awe of women for all the
incredible technological gadgets and advances they produce. Men
feel helpless with technological devices, and rely on women to
ensure that they work. This makes men feel very dependent on
women. This feeling of dependence on the female sex is very
strong, because of the importance of technology in the society.
However, males actually enjoy this feeling of dependence. They
admit to having no interest in science or technology, except
insofar as products will work. In fact, men are organized and
have a great deal of political power in the area of consumer
research and product development. There are special "Men Only
Votes" in which males vote on what types of products will be
researched and developed. The products voted on can range
anywhere from household appliances, to comfort-enhancing devices of
all types, to entertainment devices and even faster engines for
spaceplanes. Also included are the designs of cities, buildings,
residential satellites, etc. These votes are held locally,
regionally, and planet-wide. Men are thus empowered as consumers
to shape the world they live in and determine the comforts and
conveniences available, the aesthetics of their surroundings,
etc., limited only by the technologies that women can develop.
Women-dominated industries thus compete fiercely to sell their
ideas and developments to a male market, and househusbands are
lobbied by these industries, invited to trade shows, etc. If a
new city residential or shopping complex is being built, the various
design options are put to the men of the community in a series of
votes. Voting is done at home by computer (all homes are
equipped with a giant screen computer) and hundreds of design
options are flashed before the viewer. Even sky-cars are designed
this way, by consulting male consumers (even though very few men
fly them). Men enjoy this power and usually tell women the
system is justified saying things like "women know nothing about
what looks good...all they know is numbers and mathematical equations!"
Apart from their jobs, women are concerned mainly with sports -- as
spectators and as players. Almost every adult woman plays on
an organized team. The most popular sports on the planet are
basketball, volleyball, tennis, and rugby football. Women so a lot
of weightlifting -- not for mass, but mainly for strength. The
feminine ideal is a very toned physique, not the bulging muscles of
a bodybuilder. Men prefer tall, long-legged women with highly toned
physiques to bodybuilder types. Very few women look like bodybuilders;
most look like basketball players who work their arms and legs a lot
for firmness, strength, and some definition. The feminine ideal is
not skinny, either: it is strong-looking, healthy, and athletic.




---- End Forwarded Message

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 05:03:57 -0700
From: olskool@ix.netcom.com (Tony)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Fwd: Femdom Science Fiction: Planet of the Amazons
Message-Id: <199606021203.FAA07447@dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com

---- Begin Forwarded Message

220 6297 <4oruvh$96v@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com article
Path: ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: olskool@ix.netcom.com (Tony)
Newsgroups: alt.sex.femdom,alt.women.supremacy
Subject: Femdom Science Fiction: Planet of the Amazons
Date: 2 Jun 1996 11:46:57 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 176
Message-ID: <4oruvh$96v@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sdx-ca8-25.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Jun 02 6:46:57 AM CDT 1996
Xref: ix.netcom.com alt.sex.femdom:33288 alt.women.supremacy:6297

I am writing a novel about a highly technologically advanced planet
in which Amazon women rule over small, ditzy men. Men are nothing
but househusbands and maids, and women control the government, the
police, etc. The women are tall and pretty muscular, and the men
are kind of built the opposite: sort of like earth women only with a
penis and without breasts. Women do not have babies; there is
artificial insemination and babies develop in incubator vats. The
women control the technology (because they built it) and the men
don't even understand it. All the men do is take care of their
women and think about sex. Men don't wear dresses or skirts but
otherwise dress pretty similar to earth women -- what we would
consider quite feminine. Women don't wear dresses or skirts either
but dress in a way we would consider more masculine. Children are
raised in childrearing centers, by male nannies, who give much more
attention to the little girls. However, men and women do get
married. Couples remain childless for at least 10 years and then
might adopt children. In any event, 90% of married males stay
home to take care of their WIVES. There is a slight BDSM aspect to
this whole thing in that the men actually like their subordinate
status. The men feel that having a career would prevent them from
taking care of their wives. The only aspect of this planet where
men have power is in the home. Actually, within the home they
seem to have much more power than the women. The women earn the
money but the men spend it! Men can vote but don't run for office;
politics is very different anyway because leadership is more cooperative
than centered on individual personalities. There are prostitutes
of both sexes and wealthy househusbands whose wives are away on long
business trips can hire semi-professional women (like students working
part time); this is actually legal and even accepted by the wives.
When wives are away on trips, they can hire men (usually older
divorced men who have no other means of income) who work professionally.
There are no sanctions for the women but there are periodic crackdowns
on the male prostitutes. The technology of the planet is pretty
advanced; much more advanced than the earth's. Of course, women
designed and built it all. Sports are very popular. Children of
both sexes play sports up until about age 12, when men stop and
begin just looking at what the girls do. Adolescent and adult men
love sports as much as their female counterparts, but the men don't
participate; they just watch the women. Every teenage male dreams
of dating and marrying the attractive school basketball star.
After high school women either go to college or vocational school.
Men rarely attend college, although they may attend different
vocational schools. Although men reach maturity earlier, men usually
marry women a few years younger than themselves. In some ways,
sex between men and women is similar to on earth. Men usually
initiate. Men adore women's bodies and especially their strength
and power; so men's favorite parts of a woman's body are those which
symbolize her power: strong arms, shoulders; long legs, etc. Most
women have fairly large breasts but they don't function to give milk
and have little sexual significance except that they help distinguish
the sexes. Both sexes enjoy the physical aspect of sex, but for
the male a lot goes on in the mind, while for the female it is
mostly physical enjoyment. Men love female strength and like
rough sex with their partners, which allows them to feel and
experience that superior female strength. Men will actually provoke
women into rough sex. This is very much part of the culture.
Men really are the weaker sex and they like it that way. Men are
very nurturing toward women and the idea of taking care of a woman
is very sexually arousing to a man. Therefore men do it simply as
a way of stimulating themselves. The more nurturing a man feels,
the more subservient he feels, and the more subservient he feels,
the more sexually excited he gets. So husbands pamper their wives
to feel subservient, and thus to get sexually aroused. Men are
not only physcially weaker, they are mentally inferior in some
ways. Women are much better at mathematics and science; they are
more rational and better analytical thinkers. Men are more emotional
(internally and externally) and more intuitive. Again, men are
usually the sexual intitiators and fantasize a lot more about sex
than women do. Men's fantasies usually center on the physical
aspects of women, however, like making love to a tall, strong, very
attractive female. (Most of the females are tall, strong, and
attractive anyway -- the average adult female is 6'0" tall.) Or,
males' fantasies will involve pampering such a female. On the
other hand women's fantasies (when they have them) usually center
on the sex act and having intercourse with a well-endowed male.
Women tend to judge men on the size of their penises. Penile
enhancement is common. There are very few jobs for males over the
age of 25 or so, putting great pressure on men to find a wife.
Without a wife to support him, a man can be forced into very hard
menial work, such as waitering for 12 hour days (men don't do work
which requires considerable physical strength). Better off
unmarried men might find jobs as secretaries, nurses or teachers.
There is no pressure on women to marry early, so there is great
competition among men for female attention. Men like to marry
women between 3 and 7 years younger, however. Many men use the
extra time working as live-in nannies in childrearing centers,
for children from birth up to about 15 or 16 years old. Older
children have either been adopted or live in supervised dorms.
Men are aroused visually, and appreciate female beuaty. Women do
not have masculine features (despite their strength); instead,
they have feminine, but Amazonically feminine, features: the
ideal is big, strong, healthy, and stunningly attractive in a
powerful, yet still pretty, way. Men don't have to worry much
because they are surrounded by such beautiful women. On the other
hand, women do not assess males by their looks. Women judge men
basically by two things: 1) how good they are in bed (including
penile size) and 2) their honesty. Most women are not even
looking for a good househusband who can cook and clean better than
the others, because women aren't too picky. Women expect men
to do these things, but men attempt to excel at them for their
own reasons. Physically, men have the contours of the most
feminine earth women, except they have a penis instead of a vagina,
and have no breasts. Men also have facial and body hair, while
women lack hair on their faces and most of their bodies. Men
almost never grow beards but frequently grow a mustache. Men
usually wear their hair long and straight (while women usually
wear their hair medium-length and attractively styled). Men
like to dress in sexy clothes: tight pants and high heels are
common. Men will also wear clothes that reveal strategic areas
like the midriff. Men wear lingerie at night (but not gowns or
dresses). A lot of what men wear is black lace. As underwear,
men wear a kind of cross between a G-string and a jockstrap
(a jockstring?) Women's dress is more practical, but is
definitely designed to look attractive and enhance a woman's looks.
Straight-leg pants are popular, as are vests and flat-soled shoes.
Men design virtually all of the clothes for both sexes. Women's
major outlet of individuality is their hair: they enjoy styling
it, using headbands and ties, etc. For casual wear, women wear
a lot of shorts, and very short shorts are popular (probably
because men design their clothes and men love women's long legs!)
Athletic clothes are popular with women. For work, straight-leg
dress pants, shoes, a white shirt and short vest. Men buy the
clothes for their girlfriends and wives and tell them what to
wear.
The level of technology is very high. There are orbital
cities in space, spaceplanes, sky-cars, force-fields, lasers,
maglev monorails, etc. Women produce all of the technology
because only women understand what makes it work. Men's attitude
is that that they not only don't understand the technology, they
can't understand it because their brains aren't wired for "all
that math". Men are in constant awe of women for all the
incredible technological gadgets and advances they produce. Men
feel helpless with technological devices, and rely on women to
ensure that they work. This makes men feel very dependent on
women. This feeling of dependence on the female sex is very
strong, because of the importance of technology in the society.
However, males actually enjoy this feeling of dependence. They
admit to having no interest in science or technology, except
insofar as products will work. In fact, men are organized and
have a great deal of political power in the area of consumer
research and product development. There are special "Men Only
Votes" in which males vote on what types of products will be
researched and developed. The products voted on can range
anywhere from household appliances, to comfort-enhancing devices of
all types, to entertainment devices and even faster engines for
spaceplanes. Also included are the designs of cities, buildings,
residential satellites, etc. These votes are held locally,
regionally, and planet-wide. Men are thus empowered as consumers
to shape the world they live in and determine the comforts and
conveniences available, the aesthetics of their surroundings,
etc., limited only by the technologies that women can develop.
Women-dominated industries thus compete fiercely to sell their
ideas and developments to a male market, and househusbands are
lobbied by these industries, invited to trade shows, etc. If a
new city residential or shopping complex is being built, the various
design options are put to the men of the community in a series of
votes. Voting is done at home by computer (all homes are
equipped with a giant screen computer) and hundreds of design
options are flashed before the viewer. Even sky-cars are designed
this way, by consulting male consumers (even though very few men
fly them). Men enjoy this power and usually tell women the
system is justified saying things like "women know nothing about
what looks good...all they know is numbers and mathematical equations!"
Apart from their jobs, women are concerned mainly with sports -- as
spectators and as players. Almost every adult woman plays on
an organized team. The most popular sports on the planet are
basketball, volleyball, tennis, and rugby football. Women so a lot
of weightlifting -- not for mass, but mainly for strength. The
feminine ideal is a very toned physique, not the bulging muscles of
a bodybuilder. Men prefer tall, long-legged women with highly toned
physiques to bodybuilder types. Very few women look like bodybuilders;
most look like basketball players who work their arms and legs a lot
for firmness, strength, and some definition. The feminine ideal is
not skinny, either: it is strong-looking, healthy, and athletic.




---- End Forwarded Message

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 13:08:16 GMT
From: Len Bounds
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Estrogen / Testosterone
Message-Id: <199606021308.NAA01879@mailhost.worldnet.att.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

That was the funniest thing I've read in a long time! Great and thanks.

It was mostly true except for the cat part.

I still bawl my eyes out when I lose a cat. They are so much like people.

Len

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Jun 1996 15:27:27 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: off the original topic of women who rape
Message-ID: <31B2154F.681A@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

That's why it is very important that a DOM take the time to talk and
build trust with a sub. Any sub who just jumps into a sexual.. bondage
situation without taking the time to feel safe...is asking for trouble.
These relationships require more talking and communication than a
marriage. It is most important to me that in the beginning everything
be discussed before hand, before sessions, during sessions and then
doing a review afterwards. Once a relationship is established...it is
not necessary to keep up this level of "check-ins" thats why I love a
live in. but still check ins can be fun.
Patricia


Lonely2001@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 96-06-01 00:08:20 EDT, you write:

A man who choose to be submissive, but a man forced into it is a different
story. I met a sub in Seattle, that when put into bondage (which was
consensual), was raped by a large number of people (men/women with
strap-ons and was not concensual). He has totally withdrawn from the
smbd community, isolated, and has so much anger (directed inward and
outward) that he cannot function. I suggested he go to a counselor,
but he is too embarrassed. I don't know the whole story because I don't
know who the Domme was, but it is too bad that it happened.

I am submissive. But I am deathly afraid of a situation like this. This fear
has spoiled more than one chance at finding a new owner...

Not sure why I wanted to relay thisinfo, it just came to mind when I read
this post...

___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".

the subject "help".

--------------------------------
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Content-Type: text/plain

femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 90

Today's Topics:
Re: Fwd: Femdom Science Fiction: Planet of the Amazons
Re: Fwd: Femdom Science Fiction: Planet of the Amazons
Fwd: Kiss my boots
Re: Fwd: Kiss my boots
Lurker Leaps In
Re: Lurker Leaps In
Re: Lurker Leaps In
Re: Sexuality & ADHD
Re: Fwd: Femdom Science Fiction: Planet of the Amazons
Re: off the original topic of women who rape

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Jun 1996 15:31:57 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: Femdom Science Fiction: Planet of the Amazons
Message-ID: <31B2165D.1F0B@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

TONY: I don't know if you are a man or a woman...but my advice is for
you to stop writing and go home and take care of your DOM
patricia


Tony wrote:

---- Begin Forwarded Message

220 6294 <4orl46$kfh@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com article
Path: ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: olskool@ix.netcom.com (Tony)
Newsgroups: alt.sex.femdom,alt.amazon-women.admirers,alt.women.supremacy
Subject: Femdom Science Fiction: Planet of the Amazons
Date: 2 Jun 1996 08:58:46 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 58
Message-ID: <4orl46$kfh@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sdx-ca8-25.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Jun 02 3:58:46 AM CDT 1996
Xref: ix.netcom.com alt.sex.femdom:33278 alt.amazon-women.admirers:28425 alt.women.supremacy:6294

I am writing a novel about a highly technologically advanced planet
in which Amazon women rule over small, ditzy men. Men are nothing
but househusbands and maids, and women control the government, the
police, etc. The women are tall and pretty muscular, and the men
are kind of built the opposite: sort of like earth women only with a
penis and without breasts. Women do not have babies; there is
artificial insemination and babies develop in incubator vats. The
women control the technology (because they built it) and the men
don't even understand it. All the men do is take care of their
women and think about sex. Men don't wear dresses or skirts but
otherwise dress pretty similar to earth women -- what we would
consider quite feminine. Women don't wear dresses or skirts either
but dress in a way we would consider more masculine. Children are
raised in childrearing centers, by male nannies, who give much more
attention to the little girls. However, men and women do get
married. Couples remain childless for at least 10 years and then
might adopt children. In any event, 90% of married males stay
home to take care of their WIVES. There is a slight BDSM aspect to
this whole thing in that the men actually like their subordinate
status. The men feel that having a career would prevent them from
taking care of their wives. The only aspect of this planet where
men have power is in the home. Actually, within the home they
seem to have much more power than the women. The women earn the
money but the men spend it! Men can vote but don't run for office;
politics is very different anyway because leadership is more cooperative
than centered on individual personalities. There are prostitutes
of both sexes and wealthy househusbands whose wives are away on long
business trips can hire semi-professional women (like students working
part time); this is actually legal and even accepted by the wives.
When wives are away on trips, they can hire men (usually older
divorced men who have no other means of income) who work professionally.
There are no sanctions for the women but there are periodic crackdowns
on the male prostitutes. The technology of the planet is pretty
advanced; much more advanced than the earth's. Of course, women
designed and built it all. Sports are very popular. Children of
both sexes play sports up until about age 12, when men stop and
begin just looking at what the girls do. Adolescent and adult men
love sports as much as their female counterparts, but the men don't
participate; they just watch the women. Every teenage male dreams
of dating and marrying the attractive school basketball star.
After high school women either go to college or vocational school.
Men rarely attend college, although they may attend different
vocational schools. Although men reach maturity earlier, men usually
marry women a few years younger than themselves. In some ways,
sex between men and women is similar to on earth. Men usually
initiate. Men adore women's bodies and especially their strength
and power; so men's favorite parts of a woman's body are those which
symbolize her power: strong arms, shoulders; long legs, etc. Most
women have fairly large breasts but they don't function to give milk
and have little sexual significance except that they help distinguish
the sexes. Both sexes enjoy the physical aspect of sex, but for
the male a lot goes on in the mind, while for the female it is
mostly physical enjoyment. Men love female strength and like
rough sex with their partners, which allows them to feel and
experience that superior female strength. Men will actually provoke
women into rough sex. This is very much part of the culture.
Men really are the weaker sex and they like it that way.


---- End Forwarded Message

___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1996 00:30:46 +0000
From: Christine & David Stevenson
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: Femdom Science Fiction: Planet of the Amazons
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960603003046.00672894@mail.telepac.pt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Tony wrote THREE TIMES!!:

I am writing a novel about a highly technologically advanced planet
in which Amazon women rule over small, ditzy men. ETCETERA....

I wish you well Tony. The outline is a little obvious in places, but well
though out. I'd like to read the finished novel.

Please only send one copy though. :)

David Stevenson.

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 19:36:51 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Fwd: Kiss my boots
Message-Id: <199606030236.TAA07303@dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com

From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com(Laura Goodwin)
Newsgroups: alt.women.supremacy
Subject: Kiss my boots


In <199606021616.SAA18184@basement.replay.com
Etaoin.Shrdlu@basement.replay.com writes:

In article <31ACE2AE.4BDB@infinet.com,
Scott Isaacs

Second of all, you should not use this Bible verse at the end of your
post because it sounds very much like you are telling everyone that
if they seek you they will find you. You DO NOT use God's most holy
Word for your small and insignificant mortal purposes and/or agenda.

I see. I presume it is OK to use it to spread bigotry, hatred and war,
however?

LOL Right on, brother!

Boy, I haven't gotten this much attention since I bought those new
boots! ;)

What my .sig is about is:
a) I'm actually familiar with the Bible, and
b) I'm comfortable with some things in it.

Make of that what you will. :)

BTW, did you know that the first clothes approved by God were made of
animal skins? [Genesis 3:21] ;)

That God disapproved of wool-blend garments? [Leviticus 19:19]

That means that my new boots are more pleasing to the God of the Bible
than Pat Nixon's Republican cloth coat (unless it was made with real
Republicans...)! ;)



--

Laura Goodwin <--- that friendly Hartford, CT lady

"I love those who love me, and they who seek me earnestly shall find
me."
(Proverbs 8:17)

---- End Forwarded Message
--
Laura Goodwin

" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."

(William Shakespeare)

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Jun 96 05:07:20 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Re: Fwd: Kiss my boots
Message-Id: <199606030306.FAA02591@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On Sun, 2 Jun 1996 19:36:51 -0700, Laura Goodwin wrote:

Boy, I haven't gotten this much attention since I bought those new
boots! ;)

:)

What my .sig is about is:
a) I'm actually familiar with the Bible, and
b) I'm comfortable with some things in it.

That's how I feel about it too. It's the Ralph Reeds and Religious
Reichs of the World, that give Christianity a bad name.

---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden


the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1996 01:37:25 -0700
From: Thomas Hughes
To: femsupremacy-digest@renaissoft.com
CC: femsupremacy-digest@renaissoft.com, femsupremacy-digest@renaissoft.com
Subject: Lurker Leaps In
Message-ID: <31B2A445.2431@crosslink.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

After a long time spent reading your newsletter Iv'e decided to
make a few comments. First, your thoughtful, intelligent treatment of
issues has persuaded me that this is a great place to communicate with
people on a number of very interesting subjects that society shys away
from. I have really enjoyed Pat, Laura and Jet and others. Quite often I
don't agree, but I always seem to learn something. As an extremely
dominant male who was abused by a gay male in my youth,it's been tough to
sort this whole gender thing out. Ten years old is a little young to be
introduced to oral sex in a mens room at the movies. It almost ruined my
life. But God is kind and has helped me find my way to maturity and hope.
Noone could control me. As a stallion I roamed the earth, dominating
male and female alike. It's hard for me to relate to subs who demean
their manhood by making degrading comments about their gender, women who
make sexist remarks about mens bodies etc. In my opinion we are all
equally human, and each serve our own purposes for the betterment of the
race. I'm very proud of my masculinity, and submit to my wife as a choice
because I love her, and not out of weakness. I am never stronger than
when I'm worshiping at her feet. Men were made stronger physically to
protect and serve women. That strength helped kill food, protect the
family and build the home. As a former self centered, foolish male, I
have recently come to believe in the superiority of women in the 90's
at the stage in the developement of our race. No more deer to kill,
wars to fight, etc. All that testocerone is not as necessary as it ounce
was. My wife is a kinder, more loving, superior person in most ways. It's
like I just woke up and realized how fortunate I was to be her husband
andsaw her qualities in a new and liberating way. For 15 years she was
training and dominating me, but we did'nt ralize consciously that she was
controlling me completely, but she was. She felt guilty and tried to act
like the typical submissive wife society dictates, but found ways to
subjagate my will to hers. A few months ago, we both suddenly consciosly
realized that she wanted to be the "boss", "head", the family Leader .
It suddenly burst upon my conscious mind what my unconscios knew all
along, she always HAS BEEN! Ive just finally acknowledged it.
This is getting long but I might as well finish. We both felt
exhilarated and liberated. It's ok to be who you really are. And it was
nice to find out we aren't the only one's ! Our whole life is different.
I am very attentive, submissive and courteous to her. She is enjoying
being the domanant she always has been covertly out in the open. I get
her a plate at the picnic, whatever she desires, and her family is
amazed. I tell them it took her 15 years to get me trained, if they only
knew how trained I've become! The best submission is made when in the
strength of your manhood you recognize the evolutionary progress of
female superiority within the framework of equal rights and mutual
respect, and give women their long overdue respect. Not in a sexual, or
patranizing "up on a pedistal" kind of way, but as an intelligent,
humble, honest way, really respecting them, and worshiping them, not just
for their beauty, but for their strenght, and intellect and incredible
insight into the really deep and important issues that make life worth
living. She has totally conquered my heart and my life will be spent
serving that incredible woman who captured, broke, and trained made me
a one woman, godess worshiping slave! Boy, I really got carried away for
my 1st post. I'llbe listening, then like a spirit on the wind, I" be
back.

Spirit Wind

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 06:51:05 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Lurker Leaps In
Message-Id: <199606031351.GAA14948@dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com

Spirit Wind wrote:

After a long time spent reading your newsletter Iv'e decided to
make a few comments.

Well! :) Welcome to the conversation, SW, and I appreciated your post
very much.
--
Laura Goodwin

" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."

(William Shakespeare)

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1996 10:15:05 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Lurker Leaps In
Message-ID: <31B31D99.6EF2@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Nice going Spirit Wind...nice to hear your voice added too.
Patricia


Thomas Hughes wrote:

After a long time spent reading your newsletter Iv'e decided to
make a few comments. First, your thoughtful, intelligent treatment of
issues has persuaded me that this is a great place to communicate with
people on a number of very interesting subjects that society shys away
from. I have really enjoyed Pat, Laura and Jet and others. Quite often I
don't agree, but I always seem to learn something. As an extremely
dominant male who was abused by a gay male in my youth,it's been tough to
sort this whole gender thing out. Ten years old is a little young to be
introduced to oral sex in a mens room at the movies. It almost ruined my
life. But God is kind and has helped me find my way to maturity and hope.
Noone could control me. As a stallion I roamed the earth, dominating
male and female alike. It's hard for me to relate to subs who demean
their manhood by making degrading comments about their gender, women who
make sexist remarks about mens bodies etc. In my opinion we are all
equally human, and each serve our own purposes for the betterment of the
race. I'm very proud of my masculinity, and submit to my wife as a choice
because I love her, and not out of weakness. I am never stronger than
when I'm worshiping at her feet. Men were made stronger physically to
protect and serve women. That strength helped kill food, protect the
family and build the home. As a former self centered, foolish male, I
have recently come to believe in the superiority of women in the 90's
at the stage in the developement of our race. No more deer to kill,
wars to fight, etc. All that testocerone is not as necessary as it ounce
was. My wife is a kinder, more loving, superior person in most ways. It's
like I just woke up and realized how fortunate I was to be her husband
andsaw her qualities in a new and liberating way. For 15 years she was
training and dominating me, but we did'nt ralize consciously that she was
controlling me completely, but she was. She felt guilty and tried to act
like the typical submissive wife society dictates, but found ways to
subjagate my will to hers. A few months ago, we both suddenly consciosly
realized that she wanted to be the "boss", "head", the family Leader .
It suddenly burst upon my conscious mind what my unconscios knew all
along, she always HAS BEEN! Ive just finally acknowledged it.
This is getting long but I might as well finish. We both felt
exhilarated and liberated. It's ok to be who you really are. And it was
nice to find out we aren't the only one's ! Our whole life is different.
I am very attentive, submissive and courteous to her. She is enjoying
being the domanant she always has been covertly out in the open. I get
her a plate at the picnic, whatever she desires, and her family is
amazed. I tell them it took her 15 years to get me trained, if they only
knew how trained I've become! The best submission is made when in the
strength of your manhood you recognize the evolutionary progress of
female superiority within the framework of equal rights and mutual
respect, and give women their long overdue respect. Not in a sexual, or
patranizing "up on a pedistal" kind of way, but as an intelligent,
humble, honest way, really respecting them, and worshiping them, not just
for their beauty, but for their strenght, and intellect and incredible
insight into the really deep and important issues that make life worth
living. She has totally conquered my heart and my life will be spent
serving that incredible woman who captured, broke, and trained made me
a one woman, godess worshiping slave! Boy, I really got carried away for
my 1st post. I'llbe listening, then like a spirit on the wind, I" be
back.

Spirit Wind

___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 10:28:04 -0400
From: mark
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Sexuality & ADHD
Message-Id: <199606031428.KAA21066@recom.recom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 07:43 AM 6/1/96 -0700, you wrote:
I'll bounce off the ropes and into center ring to say that sex for me
is certainly effected by ADD/ADHD, in my case by either interfering
with my ability to enjoy myself, or by making me hyperfocus
(preferable).

I can't hyperfocus at will. Fully mutual sex is elusive as hell for
me. I compensate by taking turns...I work on my pleasure/orgasm first,
then take care of my partner, or vice-versa. Sometimes I just do my
partner, then collapse. Sometimes I just demand relief/satisfaction,
then collapse. I'm goal oriented: I get/give and orgasm, then I'm
outta there! The thought of wallowing in bed for hours "making love"
seems oppressive to me. Multiple orgasms!? I'm lucky to tear *one*
off!

Laura.....this is ashame, perhaps your sub-hub should learn the art of oral
gratification. Putting YOUR needs FIRST. Let me know if you need a teacher :)


I have learned over the years how to coax out the hyperfocus magic by
dressing sex up and putting on a show. All the guys at "Wild Bill's
Leathers" know my name. ;) Fortunately, my hubby is along for the ride,
and when it's good, it's GRRRReat! Alas, I have trouble getting worked
up to get started sometimes. Sometimes the thought of breaking out the
toys and organizing a sex-fest oppresses me. Sometimes I just
masturbate so I can get some sleep.

If I have had good sex and everybody is happy, I'm so overjoyed that I
leap out of bed and run it over and over in my mind pacing like a lion
in a cage while my partner snoozes peacefully through the night.

--
Laura Goodwin

" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."

(William Shakespeare)

___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".




the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 10:52:54 -0400
From: mark
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: Femdom Science Fiction: Planet of the Amazons
Message-Id: <199606031452.KAA21275@recom.recom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 02:06 AM 6/2/96 -0700, you wrote:
---- Begin Forwarded Message

220 6294 <4orl46$kfh@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com article
Path: ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: olskool@ix.netcom.com (Tony)
Newsgroups: alt.sex.femdom,alt.amazon-women.admirers,alt.women.supremacy
Subject: Femdom Science Fiction: Planet of the Amazons
Date: 2 Jun 1996 08:58:46 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 58
Message-ID: <4orl46$kfh@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sdx-ca8-25.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Jun 02 3:58:46 AM CDT 1996
Xref: ix.netcom.com alt.sex.femdom:33278 alt.amazon-women.admirers:28425
alt.women.supremacy:6294

I am writing a novel about a highly technologically advanced planet
in which Amazon women rule over small, ditzy men. Men are nothing
but househusbands and maids, and women control the government, the
police, etc. The women are tall and pretty muscular, and the men
are kind of built the opposite: sort of like earth women only with a
penis and without breasts. Women do not have babies; there is
artificial insemination and babies develop in incubator vats. The
women control the technology (because they built it) and the men
don't even understand it. All the men do is take care of their
women and think about sex. Men don't wear dresses or skirts but
otherwise dress pretty similar to earth women -- what we would
consider quite feminine. Women don't wear dresses or skirts either
but dress in a way we would consider more masculine. Children are
raised in childrearing centers, by male nannies, who give much more
attention to the little girls. However, men and women do get
married. Couples remain childless for at least 10 years and then
might adopt children. In any event, 90% of married males stay
home to take care of their WIVES. There is a slight BDSM aspect to
this whole thing in that the men actually like their subordinate
status. The men feel that having a career would prevent them from
taking care of their wives. The only aspect of this planet where
men have power is in the home. Actually, within the home they
seem to have much more power than the women. The women earn the
money but the men spend it! Men can vote but don't run for office;
politics is very different anyway because leadership is more cooperative
than centered on individual personalities. There are prostitutes
of both sexes and wealthy househusbands whose wives are away on long
business trips can hire semi-professional women (like students working
part time); this is actually legal and even accepted by the wives.
When wives are away on trips, they can hire men (usually older
divorced men who have no other means of income) who work professionally.
There are no sanctions for the women but there are periodic crackdowns
on the male prostitutes. The technology of the planet is pretty
advanced; much more advanced than the earth's. Of course, women
designed and built it all. Sports are very popular. Children of
both sexes play sports up until about age 12, when men stop and
begin just looking at what the girls do. Adolescent and adult men
love sports as much as their female counterparts, but the men don't
participate; they just watch the women. Every teenage male dreams
of dating and marrying the attractive school basketball star.
After high school women either go to college or vocational school.
Men rarely attend college, although they may attend different
vocational schools. Although men reach maturity earlier, men usually
marry women a few years younger than themselves. In some ways,
sex between men and women is similar to on earth. Men usually
initiate. Men adore women's bodies and especially their strength
and power; so men's favorite parts of a woman's body are those which
symbolize her power: strong arms, shoulders; long legs, etc. Most
women have fairly large breasts but they don't function to give milk
and have little sexual significance except that they help distinguish
the sexes. Both sexes enjoy the physical aspect of sex, but for
the male a lot goes on in the mind, while for the female it is
mostly physical enjoyment. Men love female strength and like
rough sex with their partners, which allows them to feel and
experience that superior female strength. Men will actually provoke
women into rough sex. This is very much part of the culture.
Men really are the weaker sex and they like it that way.



i find this quite stupid.....why don't you say on this planet women are
men and men are women. i would much rather read what is going on in this
world today. Men realize the power women have over men and are submitting to
it in record number. Men think with there penis which clouds there mind. If
ALL women realized this the way this group has and take controll by using
there femininity, the world would be a better place.

---- End Forwarded Message

___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".




the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 11:03:21 -0400
From: mark
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: off the original topic of women who rape
Message-Id: <199606031503.LAA21398@recom.recom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 03:27 PM 6/2/96 -0700, you wrote:
That's why it is very important that a DOM take the time to talk and
build trust with a sub. Any sub who just jumps into a sexual.. bondage
situation without taking the time to feel safe...is asking for trouble.
These relationships require more talking and communication than a
marriage. It is most important to me that in the beginning everything
be discussed before hand, before sessions, during sessions and then
doing a review afterwards. Once a relationship is established...it is
not necessary to keep up this level of "check-ins" thats why I love a
live in. but still check ins can be fun.
Patricia


Ms. Patricia, as a sub i find it hard to talk to a Dom. i never want to
presume to tell the Dom what i like or dislike. She is the one to take me
past my limmits if she so desires. i found by using a safe word has worked
for me in the past. All the talking in the world will never insure my safety
once i am in a vulnerable situation. i just wish i could find one owner so i
wouldn't have to worry about that.......mark
Lonely2001@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 96-06-01 00:08:20 EDT, you write:

A man who choose to be submissive, but a man forced into it is a different
story. I met a sub in Seattle, that when put into bondage (which was
consensual), was raped by a large number of people (men/women with
strap-ons and was not concensual). He has totally withdrawn from the
smbd community, isolated, and has so much anger (directed inward and
outward) that he cannot function. I suggested he go to a counselor,
but he is too embarrassed. I don't know the whole story because I don't
know who the Domme was, but it is too bad that it happened.

I am submissive. But I am deathly afraid of a situation like this. This fear
has spoiled more than one chance at finding a new owner...

Not sure why I wanted to relay thisinfo, it just came to mind when I read
this post...

___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".

___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".




the subject "help".

--------------------------------
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------------------------------

Content-Type: text/plain

femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 91

Today's Topics:
Re: Sexuality & ADHD
Re: Lurker Leaps In
Re: Sexuality & ADHD
unsubscribe
Re: Sexuality & ADHD
Re: Fwd: Femdom Science Fiction: Planet of the Am
Re: Sexuality & ADHD
Re: off the original topic of women who rape
Re: Fwd: Femdom Science Fiction: Planet of the Amazons
Re: off the original topic of women who rape

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 10:28:07 -0400
From: mark
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Sexuality & ADHD
Message-Id: <199606031428.KAA21070@recom.recom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 07:43 AM 6/1/96 -0700, you wrote:
I'll bounce off the ropes and into center ring to say that sex for me
is certainly effected by ADD/ADHD, in my case by either interfering
with my ability to enjoy myself, or by making me hyperfocus
(preferable).

I can't hyperfocus at will. Fully mutual sex is elusive as hell for
me. I compensate by taking turns...I work on my pleasure/orgasm first,
then take care of my partner, or vice-versa. Sometimes I just do my
partner, then collapse. Sometimes I just demand relief/satisfaction,
then collapse. I'm goal oriented: I get/give and orgasm, then I'm
outta there! The thought of wallowing in bed for hours "making love"
seems oppressive to me. Multiple orgasms!? I'm lucky to tear *one*
off!

Laura,...this is ashame, maybe your sub-hub should be more attentive to
your needs. Perhaps sharpening his oral skills??? If he needs a teacher, let
me know!


I have learned over the years how to coax out the hyperfocus magic by
dressing sex up and putting on a show. All the guys at "Wild Bill's
Leathers" know my name. ;) Fortunately, my hubby is along for the ride,
and when it's good, it's GRRRReat! Alas, I have trouble getting worked
up to get started sometimes. Sometimes the thought of breaking out the
toys and organizing a sex-fest oppresses me. Sometimes I just
masturbate so I can get some sleep.

If I have had good sex and everybody is happy, I'm so overjoyed that I
leap out of bed and run it over and over in my mind pacing like a lion
in a cage while my partner snoozes peacefully through the night.

--
Laura Goodwin

" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."

(William Shakespeare)

___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".




the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 11:21:31 -0400
From: mark
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Lurker Leaps In
Message-Id: <199606031521.LAA21641@recom.recom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 01:37 AM 6/3/96 -0700, you wrote:
After a long time spent reading your newsletter Iv'e decided to
make a few comments. First, your thoughtful, intelligent treatment of
issues has persuaded me that this is a great place to communicate with
people on a number of very interesting subjects that society shys away
from. I have really enjoyed Pat, Laura and Jet and others. Quite often I
don't agree, but I always seem to learn something. As an extremely
dominant male who was abused by a gay male in my youth,it's been tough to
sort this whole gender thing out. Ten years old is a little young to be
introduced to oral sex in a mens room at the movies. It almost ruined my
life. But God is kind and has helped me find my way to maturity and hope.
Noone could control me. As a stallion I roamed the earth, dominating
male and female alike. It's hard for me to relate to subs who demean
their manhood by making degrading comments about their gender, women who
make sexist remarks about mens bodies etc. In my opinion we are all
equally human, and each serve our own purposes for the betterment of the
race. I'm very proud of my masculinity, and submit to my wife as a choice
because I love her, and not out of weakness. I am never stronger than
when I'm worshiping at her feet. Men were made stronger physically to
protect and serve women. That strength helped kill food, protect the
family and build the home. As a former self centered, foolish male, I
have recently come to believe in the superiority of women in the 90's
at the stage in the developement of our race. No more deer to kill,
wars to fight, etc. All that testocerone is not as necessary as it ounce
was. My wife is a kinder, more loving, superior person in most ways. It's
like I just woke up and realized how fortunate I was to be her husband
andsaw her qualities in a new and liberating way. For 15 years she was
training and dominating me, but we did'nt ralize consciously that she was
controlling me completely, but she was. She felt guilty and tried to act
like the typical submissive wife society dictates, but found ways to
subjagate my will to hers. A few months ago, we both suddenly consciosly
realized that she wanted to be the "boss", "head", the family Leader .
It suddenly burst upon my conscious mind what my unconscios knew all
along, she always HAS BEEN! Ive just finally acknowledged it.
This is getting long but I might as well finish. We both felt
exhilarated and liberated. It's ok to be who you really are. And it was
nice to find out we aren't the only one's ! Our whole life is different.
I am very attentive, submissive and courteous to her. She is enjoying
being the domanant she always has been covertly out in the open. I get
her a plate at the picnic, whatever she desires, and her family is
amazed. I tell them it took her 15 years to get me trained, if they only
knew how trained I've become! The best submission is made when in the
strength of your manhood you recognize the evolutionary progress of
female superiority within the framework of equal rights and mutual
respect, and give women their long overdue respect. Not in a sexual, or
patranizing "up on a pedistal" kind of way, but as an intelligent,
humble, honest way, really respecting them, and worshiping them, not just
for their beauty, but for their strenght, and intellect and incredible
insight into the really deep and important issues that make life worth
living. She has totally conquered my heart and my life will be spent
serving that incredible woman who captured, broke, and trained made me
a one woman, godess worshiping slave! Boy, I really got carried away for
my 1st post. I'llbe listening, then like a spirit on the wind, I" be
back.

Spirit Wind

Let me tell you, you are not alone. Every successfull marrage i know is a
FemDom relationship, whether they realize it or not. i just wish i had
learned of this before my divorce. Since then i have experienced being truly
subservient to a woman and it is liberating to get rid of this male ego
hangup that ruined my marrage.........mark
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".




the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 08:33:24 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Sexuality & ADHD
Message-Id: <199606031533.IAA22887@dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com

Laura,...this is ashame, maybe your sub-hub should be more
attentive to your needs. Perhaps sharpening his oral skills??? If he
needs a teacher, let me know!

Oh, please, this was not very funny.

My hubby is a saint. He does what I ask him to do. We get along fine,
FYI, and I'd rather be with someone who does it the way *I* teach, not
the way some self-important cuntlicker thinks it should be done.

--
Laura Goodwin

" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."

(William Shakespeare)

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1996 11:53:50 -0400
From: Matt Garrett <1indiana@norfolk.infi.net
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: unsubscribe
Message-ID: <31B30A8E.FD3@norfolk.infi.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

unsubcribe

Thank you. Matt.

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 13:01:53 -0400
From: mark
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Sexuality & ADHD
Message-Id: <199606031701.NAA22507@recom.recom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 08:33 AM 6/3/96 -0700, you wrote:
Laura,...this is ashame, maybe your sub-hub should be more
attentive to your needs. Perhaps sharpening his oral skills??? If he
needs a teacher, let me know!

Oh, please, this was not very funny.

My hubby is a saint. He does what I ask him to do. We get along fine,
FYI, and I'd rather be with someone who does it the way *I* teach, not
the way some self-important cuntlicker thinks it should be done.

Good point!!, can't blame me for trying......: ), mark
--
Laura Goodwin

" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."

(William Shakespeare)

___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".




the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 13:52:36 -0500
From: sorceress@CYBEROTI.COM
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: Femdom Science Fiction: Planet of the Am
Message-ID:

Even STUPIDER is that I received this maximally verbose post *FOUR*
times. Very much like junk mail.
CybErotiComm Online

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 11:18:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Sexuality & ADHD
Message-Id: <199606031818.LAA00338@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1369

Laura Goodwin wrote:

Laura,...this is ashame, maybe your sub-hub should be more
attentive to your needs. Perhaps sharpening his oral skills??? If he
needs a teacher, let me know!

Oh, please, this was not very funny.

My hubby is a saint. He does what I ask him to do. We get along fine,
FYI, and I'd rather be with someone who does it the way *I* teach, not
the way some self-important cuntlicker thinks it should be done.

Why is it that, often, when a woman mentions something about her
sexuality like not having multiple orgasms, or something else she does
not do or enjoy, men she doesn't even know love to chime in out of
nowhere, "But if you did it with _me_...!" I've had guys tell me I'd
like being spanked if _they_ did it. These same guys won't generally
leave you alone until you tell them for about the 10th time to piss
off. No, it's not funny at all, considering how frequently it
happens.

Why these guys think they would be better than someone I knew and
loved is beyond me. The ego involved in those statements is just
amazing.

Dee-Ann

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 14:59:18 -0400
From: Lonely2001@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: off the original topic of women who rape
Message-ID: <960603145912_126817207@emout10.mail.aol.com

In a message dated 96-06-02 15:33:49 EDT, you write:


That's why it is very important that a DOM take the time to talk and
build trust with a sub. Any sub who just jumps into a sexual.. bondage
situation without taking the time to feel safe...is asking for trouble.
These relationships require more talking and communication than a
marriage. It is most important to me that in the beginning everything
be discussed before hand, before sessions, during sessions and then
doing a review afterwards. Once a relationship is established...it is
not necessary to keep up this level of "check-ins" thats why I love a
live in. but still check ins can be fun.
Patricia



I have alwyas felt that the bond between a Mistress and her slave is much
more powerful than the typical male/female pairing (boyfriend/girlfriend,
etc.). Part of it is that incredible trust.

I am spooked by the fact that certain Dommes seem to focus on your limits and
make a point of using them in her scenes, using them against you, etc.
Because if you are truly submissive you must have no limits with your
Mistress, etc. I know in some ways that might be true, but I prefer a
Mistress who respects my limits.

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 21:24:21 +0200
From: silver heart
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: Femdom Science Fiction: Planet of the Amazons
Message-ID:

I like your idea, but I have some criticisms.

first, is your goal to project an ideal society, or is your
goal to expose the weaknesses and stereotypes of the current
society? yes, it is possible to combine these, but there
will be junctures where they conflict, and then you need to
choose one over the other, and you must do this consistently.
I think your outline is not consistent about this.

for example, you prescribe a lot of physical ideals and
clothing ideals that everybody in your utopian society adhere
to. while I am mostly in agreement with your ideals, and
certainly would greatly prefer them to current trends, I am
uneasy about the absolutism you put onto them. it is simply
not possible to have everyone agree to or adhere to ideals
like these, nor is it desirable -- diversity and liberty are
valuable in any society (but as a major trend, among others,
your ideals are (mostly) fine).

I take two exceptions to your ideals. first, I like the
huge, massive bodybuilder type of women. these are heroes of
the gender frontier, they should be respected and honored,
and they would certainly exist in a gender radical Amazonian
utopia.

second, I see no reason that men should be stupid and unable
to have and develop intellectual interests and pursuits.
unless you want to make a point that gender stereotypes can
encourage stupidity. that is, you'd have to consistently
choose exposing the weaknesses and stereotypes of the current
society as your goal for the novel. but this conflicts with
your positive and utopian vision of the Amazons. also, you
risk that many people will be turned off by your vision:

why should your male reader have to choose between his
intelligence and an Amazonian utopia? isn't intelligence a
requirement for him in the first place, if he is to be able
to envision and embrace an Amazonian utopia?

having said all that, I want to make a general point about
100 %, 180 degrees gender role reversed utopias -- the
variations of the gender role anti-thesis. these are often
accused of being simplistic, stupid, without merit and such.
"all you did was changing the men with the women and vice
versa". instead one is often encouraged to find and develop
some other alternative that is beyond both the stereotypes
and their anti-thesis. while such alternatives certainly are
both interesting and necessary, I think that the exact
anti-thesis, when well written or composed, is also of great
value. an example of this is Gerd Brantenberg's novel
_Egalia's daughters_, another is a Star Trek episode from a
gender role reversed planet, etc.

in fact, the idea of gender role anti-thesis is very radical.
it places hidden assumptions about gender in the wide open,
and by reversing them, it reveals their *arbitrariness*.
therefore, the gender role anti-thesis will always be a
radical idea: it takes that which consists of hidden
asssumptions (and which therefore, for many people, even for
many of those in opposition to it, has the status of being
"natural"), and, by reversing it, reveals that it is just an
artifact. therefore, the gender role anti-thesis will always
provoke fear and anger, sometimes even among them who
consider themselves liberal, educated or radical.

---
silver heart
"A hard woman is good to find" -- The Valkyries

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 13:26:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chase Vogelsberg
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: off the original topic of women who rape
Message-Id: <199606032026.NAA15620@eskimo.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Patricia (Noble) wrote:
That's why it is very important that a DOM take the time to talk and
build trust with a sub. Any sub who just jumps into a sexual.. bondage
situation without taking the time to feel safe...is asking for trouble.
These relationships require more talking and communication than a
marriage. It is most important to me that in the beginning everything
be discussed before hand, before sessions, during sessions and then
doing a review afterwards. Once a relationship is established...it is
not necessary to keep up this level of "check-ins" thats why I love a
live in. but still check ins can be fun.

Lonely2001 wrote:
I am spooked by the fact that certain Dommes seem to focus on your limits
and make a point of using them in her scenes, using them against you, etc.
Because if you are truly submissive you must have no limits with your
Mistress, etc. I know in some ways that might be true, but I prefer a
Mistress who respects my limits.

As Patricia said, it's incredibly important for both the dominant and the
submissive to take time and build trust with one another _before_ getting
too far along with the D/s relationship. For reasons of physical safety on
both sides, and to prevent bitterness if not actual emotional harm. There's
always limits, regardless of what some people (dominant and submissive) may
say on the subject. (Would a submissive suffer death or maiming for the
Mistress, or abandon (or even slay) their child for the dominant, or commit
crimes and go to jail for them? Should he or she be expected to? Some
dominants (mostly male) and slaves would say so. Personally, I disagree.)

Without going to such extremes, it's still critical that both people know
what the others limits are, and that they can be trusted with them. Why?
Someone on this list posted about the sub who willingly allowed himself to
be restrained, and was then raped by several people. That sub -may- have
said, "I'll do anything, Mistress", implying a total lack of limits, in
essence saying that the mistress had a right to allow others to use him for
sex. Quite possibly, limits, safewords and what was considered permissible
behaviors were never discussed. Or the dominant ignored such 'niceties' and
simply imposed her will, regardless of what had been negotiated.

Odds are that if they'd taken more time to get to know one another, it would
never have happened. The dominant might've learned that the sub, either from
inexperience or deceitfulness, did have limits and reservations that hadn't
been expressed, or the sub might've learned that his limits weren't likely to
be respected and honored. There's definate risks on both sides - the sub,
with more immediate physical and psychological dangers as the one typically
at the other's mercy, the domme usually running a risk of various forms of
recrimination, whether physical, legal, or emotional.

Again - without such extremes : Presuming both a domme and submissive are
decent people who aren't out to cause serious harm to one another, knowing
one another's limits / inclinations would seem vital, at least if a serious
relationship is the intent. If one is incredibly into pain/humiliation/
whatever and the other is inalterably opposed, most likely the two are going
to learn the hard way. At least one is likely to be hurt or saddened when
the relationship ends.

And even if you acknowledge that dominant has the right to push or even go
past at least some of the sub's stated limits, I'd think it's good to know
that -if- an owner chooses to push or ignore a limit, it's not without some
thought, some knowledge of what the aftereffects may be. That if, perhaps,
she allows other to sexually use the submissive, she's taking care that risk
of sexually transmitted disease is minimized, that she's ensuring that no
significant physical damage is inflicted, and that she thinks some benefit
(even her own pleasure) will outweigh potential harm to the submissive. A
matter of caring, affection, compassion and/or honor, on the dominant's part.

Without taking time to get to know one another, to communicate and negotiate,
how can you know whether compassion, honor, or anything else, will keep the
other person from using and abusing you, and then tossing you away? On one
hand, I -do- think women are more trustworthy then men in such matters. I've
seen male dominants who, imo, shouldn't be trusted with a plant, much less a
pet or submissive. Something about the types of men who're often drawn to
domhood, perhaps - it props their ego, reinforces their masculinity, and,
most of all, allows them to simply order someone to get them a beer, do the
cleaning, and sexually service them w/o any illusion of reciprocity - the
perfect one-way relationship.

I rarely see the same thing in dominant women, for some reason.... ;-) For
much the same reason, I tend, -in general-, to trust women in positions of
power or authority more then I do men. Women seem to rarely strive for power
or dominance solely for the purpose of amassing power, or to abuse it. Cops
for instance - guys who join the force were often football jocks or bullies
in school, and see policehood as an extension of that - get paid to be macho,
with an excuse to beat on people at will. Women joining the force? Near as
I've been able to tell, most do it for a chance to make a difference, to try
and better society.

A typical woman politician tends to think about what effect her legislation
is going to have on the public, on children, the environment, what the real
benefits are versus the cost. Same thing with an individual dominant female;
I think she's more likely to consider the consequences of her desires, on her
submissive, on herself, on others, and to balance the benefits or pleasure
against the cost. But with neither politicians or potential Dommes would I
want to trust to luck or probability that it was the case. ;

(Heh. I think I've rambled enough in my effort to tie in social issues of
female supremacy here

-- \_awless is : A wolf, wild at heart, with a heart of darkness.
-- Chase Vogelsberg (lawless@netcom.com / lawless@eskimo.com)
--
-- Some angels didn't have that far to fall.

the subject "help".

--------------------------------
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Content-Type: text/plain

femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 92

Today's Topics:
Re: off the original topic of women who rape
Re: Sexuality & ADHD
Re: Sexuality & ADHD
Policeforce.
Re: Sexuality & ADHD
[Fwd: Returned mail: User unknown]
Harassing women on the net.
Re: Sexuality & ADHD
Policeforce
unsubscribe
Pro-choice internet action


Thoughtful answer Lawless (great name too)...and brings me back to my
favorite personal quote.."I may be dangerous, but I am not evil."
patricia



Chase Vogelsberg wrote:

Patricia (Noble) wrote:
That's why it is very important that a DOM take the time to talk and
build trust with a sub. Any sub who just jumps into a sexual.. bondage
situation without taking the time to feel safe...is asking for trouble.
These relationships require more talking and communication than a
marriage. It is most important to me that in the beginning everything
be discussed before hand, before sessions, during sessions and then
doing a review afterwards. Once a relationship is established...it is
not necessary to keep up this level of "check-ins" thats why I love a
live in. but still check ins can be fun.

Lonely2001 wrote:
I am spooked by the fact that certain Dommes seem to focus on your limits
and make a point of using them in her scenes, using them against you, etc.
Because if you are truly submissive you must have no limits with your
Mistress, etc. I know in some ways that might be true, but I prefer a
Mistress who respects my limits.

As Patricia said, it's incredibly important for both the dominant and the
submissive to take time and build trust with one another _before_ getting
too far along with the D/s relationship. For reasons of physical safety on
both sides, and to prevent bitterness if not actual emotional harm. There's
always limits, regardless of what some people (dominant and submissive) may
say on the subject. (Would a submissive suffer death or maiming for the
Mistress, or abandon (or even slay) their child for the dominant, or commit
crimes and go to jail for them? Should he or she be expected to? Some
dominants (mostly male) and slaves would say so. Personally, I disagree.)

Without going to such extremes, it's still critical that both people know
what the others limits are, and that they can be trusted with them. Why?
Someone on this list posted about the sub who willingly allowed himself to
be restrained, and was then raped by several people. That sub -may- have
said, "I'll do anything, Mistress", implying a total lack of limits, in
essence saying that the mistress had a right to allow others to use him for
sex. Quite possibly, limits, safewords and what was considered permissible
behaviors were never discussed. Or the dominant ignored such 'niceties' and
simply imposed her will, regardless of what had been negotiated.

Odds are that if they'd taken more time to get to know one another, it would
never have happened. The dominant might've learned that the sub, either from
inexperience or deceitfulness, did have limits and reservations that hadn't
been expressed, or the sub might've learned that his limits weren't likely to
be respected and honored. There's definate risks on both sides - the sub,
with more immediate physical and psychological dangers as the one typically
at the other's mercy, the domme usually running a risk of various forms of
recrimination, whether physical, legal, or emotional.

Again - without such extremes : Presuming both a domme and submissive are
decent people who aren't out to cause serious harm to one another, knowing
one another's limits / inclinations would seem vital, at least if a serious
relationship is the intent. If one is incredibly into pain/humiliation/
whatever and the other is inalterably opposed, most likely the two are going
to learn the hard way. At least one is likely to be hurt or saddened when
the relationship ends.

And even if you acknowledge that dominant has the right to push or even go
past at least some of the sub's stated limits, I'd think it's good to know
that -if- an owner chooses to push or ignore a limit, it's not without some
thought, some knowledge of what the aftereffects may be. That if, perhaps,
she allows other to sexually use the submissive, she's taking care that risk
of sexually transmitted disease is minimized, that she's ensuring that no
significant physical damage is inflicted, and that she thinks some benefit
(even her own pleasure) will outweigh potential harm to the submissive. A
matter of caring, affection, compassion and/or honor, on the dominant's part.

Without taking time to get to know one another, to communicate and negotiate,
how can you know whether compassion, honor, or anything else, will keep the
other person from using and abusing you, and then tossing you away? On one
hand, I -do- think women are more trustworthy then men in such matters. I've
seen male dominants who, imo, shouldn't be trusted with a plant, much less a
pet or submissive. Something about the types of men who're often drawn to
domhood, perhaps - it props their ego, reinforces their masculinity, and,
most of all, allows them to simply order someone to get them a beer, do the
cleaning, and sexually service them w/o any illusion of reciprocity - the
perfect one-way relationship.

I rarely see the same thing in dominant women, for some reason.... ;-) For
much the same reason, I tend, -in general-, to trust women in positions of
power or authority more then I do men. Women seem to rarely strive for power
or dominance solely for the purpose of amassing power, or to abuse it. Cops
for instance - guys who join the force were often football jocks or bullies
in school, and see policehood as an extension of that - get paid to be macho,
with an excuse to beat on people at will. Women joining the force? Near as
I've been able to tell, most do it for a chance to make a difference, to try
and better society.

A typical woman politician tends to think about what effect her legislation
is going to have on the public, on children, the environment, what the real
benefits are versus the cost. Same thing with an individual dominant female;
I think she's more likely to consider the consequences of her desires, on her
submissive, on herself, on others, and to balance the benefits or pleasure
against the cost. But with neither politicians or potential Dommes would I
want to trust to luck or probability that it was the case. ;

(Heh. I think I've rambled enough in my effort to tie in social issues of
female supremacy here

-- \_awless is : A wolf, wild at heart, with a heart of darkness.
-- Chase Vogelsberg (lawless@netcom.com / lawless@eskimo.com)
--
-- Some angels didn't have that far to fall.

___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".

--
MZê

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 18:37:18 -0400
From: mark
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Sexuality & ADHD
Message-Id: <199606032237.SAA26163@recom.recom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 11:18 AM 6/3/96 -0700, you wrote:
Laura Goodwin wrote:

Laura,...this is ashame, maybe your sub-hub should be more
attentive to your needs. Perhaps sharpening his oral skills??? If he
needs a teacher, let me know!

Oh, please, this was not very funny.

My hubby is a saint. He does what I ask him to do. We get along fine,
FYI, and I'd rather be with someone who does it the way *I* teach, not
the way some self-important cuntlicker thinks it should be done.

Why is it that, often, when a woman mentions something about her
sexuality like not having multiple orgasms, or something else she does
not do or enjoy, men she doesn't even know love to chime in out of
nowhere, "But if you did it with _me_...!" I've had guys tell me I'd
like being spanked if _they_ did it. These same guys won't generally
leave you alone until you tell them for about the 10th time to piss
off. No, it's not funny at all, considering how frequently it
happens.

Why these guys think they would be better than someone I knew and
loved is beyond me. The ego involved in those statements is just
amazing.

Dee-Ann

Yo DEE-ANN,......Lighten up!!!!
!!___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".




the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Jun 96 03:04:18 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Re: Sexuality & ADHD
Message-Id: <199606040102.DAA21143@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On Mon, 3 Jun 1996 13:01:53 -0400, mark wrote:

At 08:33 AM 6/3/96 -0700, you wrote:
Laura,...this is ashame, maybe your sub-hub should be more
attentive to your needs. Perhaps sharpening his oral skills??? If he
needs a teacher, let me know!

Oh, please, this was not very funny.

My hubby is a saint. He does what I ask him to do. We get along fine,

Good point!!, can't blame me for trying......: ), mark

I do think we can! In my humble opinion you have insulted both Laura
and her husband, and the least you could do is apologize.

---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden
Hiroshima 45, Tjernobyl 86, Windows 95 ...

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Jun 96 03:00:00 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Policeforce.
Message-Id: <199606040058.CAA20822@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On Mon, 3 Jun 1996 13:26:25 -0700 (PDT), Chase Vogelsberg wrote:

Cops
for instance - guys who join the force were often football jocks or bullies
in school, and see policehood as an extension of that - get paid to be macho,
with an excuse to beat on people at will. Women joining the force? Near as
I've been able to tell, most do it for a chance to make a difference, to try
and better society.

I think this a most tastless generalization, and I resent it! Produce
the evidence please. There a are most likely a few bad apples, but the
people applying for a position in the police force are submitted to
psychological tests to try keep those who are not suited out of the force.

---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden
Hiroshima 45, Tjernobyl 86, Windows 95 ...

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 18:57:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Sexuality & ADHD
Message-Id: <199606040157.SAA00642@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 823

mark wrote:

Yo DEE-ANN,......Lighten up!!!!

Take some advice from me, mark. Your comment to Laura was
unacceptable. Your comment about "can't blame me for trying" was also
unacceptable, after all you made the statement, hence it was your
"fault" as it were.

The women on this list aren't here for you to throw lines at. This is
a _Femsupremacy_ list. Stop being a jerk or you're out.

Dee-Ann
Who, after an exhausting day, and reading e-mail from another idiot
who is rather lamely attempting to harass me, has very little
patience.

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1996 22:58:42 -0700
From: Noble
To: Femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: [Fwd: Returned mail: User unknown]
Message-ID: <31B3D092.7C9B@tiac.net
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------151443A97497"

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--
MZê

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From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
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The original message was received at Mon, 3 Jun 1996 22:56:49 -0400
from mailserver1.tiac.net [199.0.65.232]

----- The following addresses had delivery problems -----


----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to davinci.renaissoft.com.:
RCPT To:
<<< 550
550

----- Original message follows -----

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Message-ID: <31B3CF25.5217@tiac.net
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1996 22:52:37 -0700
From: Noble
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; I)
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every time I answer Magnus I think I am sending to list, but instead
they go to him...of course, then Magnus hears from me twice as often and
that can only make for a better day.
patricia
--
MZê

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Message-ID: <31B3CEA2.2CFF@tiac.net
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1996 22:50:26 -0700
From: Noble
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To:
Subject: Re: off the original topic of women who rape
References: <199606040114.DAA23060@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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Magnus, Magnus, Magnus...you are a brat...(charming) but still a
brat...they say the same thing...and if I said it .. each time I said it
is the right way to say it. We have a rule in my house: I am never
wrong, and if it ever appears that I am wrong..it is only the exception
that proves the rule...that I am never wrong.
Patricia
but you are paying alot of attention to almost everything I say..have
you written it down somewhere..of course I can't blame you...for
admiring my brilliance.


Magnus Thelander wrote:

On Mon, 03 Jun 1996 16:42:36 -0700, Noble wrote:

favorite personal quote.."I may be dangerous, but I am not evil."

The one I copied out of your sig. with your permission reads:

"You don't have to be evil to be dangerous."
---Mistress Patricia

Did I or you get it wrong?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|Magnus Thelander | Fidonet: 2:200/422.21 | Everybody knows, that the
|Drottninggatan 4A | Tel.: +46-708-535155 | best nuts come from
|212 11 Malmo | Timezone= CET + 1 | California.
|Sweden | | -Sunkist
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

--
MZê

--------------381F21764348--


--WAA00169.833857016/maildeliver3.tiac.net--


--------------151443A97497--

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Jun 96 08:31:43 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Harassing women on the net.
Message-Id: <199606040634.IAA23510@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On Mon, 3 Jun 1996 18:57:04 -0700 (PDT), Dee-Ann LeBlanc wrote:

Who, after an exhausting day, and reading e-mail from another idiot
who is rather lamely attempting to harass me, has very little
patience.

Why are men compelled to do this?

I may not agree with all of the few (compared to the number of men)
women, who are connected, but I do appreciate their input, and I think
more women need to claim their place in the cyberspace community and not
let the boys use this as their playpen.

This kind of behavior really makes me feel shame on the behalf of these
men :(.

---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden
Hiroshima 45, Tjernobyl 86, Windows 95 ...

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 05:44:33 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Sexuality & ADHD
Message-Id: <199606041244.FAA17809@dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com

Why these guys think they would be better than someone I knew and
loved is beyond me. The ego involved in those statements is just
amazing.

Dee-Ann

Yo DEE-ANN,......Lighten up!!!!

Thank you for you comments Dee-Ann. Mark, it is you who should be
learning something from this.
--
Laura Goodwin

" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."

(William Shakespeare)

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 05:54:44 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Policeforce
Message-Id: <199606041254.FAA18155@dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com

On Mon, 3 Jun 1996 13:26:25 -0700 (PDT), Chase Vogelsberg wrote:

Cops for instance - guys who join the force were often football jocks
or bullies in school

but the
people applying for a position in the police force are submitted to
psychological tests to try keep those who are not suited out of the
force.

Alas, Magnus, that may be true in Sweden, but not here in the U.S. I
agree that all would-be cops should show they are not violent, not
prejudiced against minorities, that their reason for joining the force
is to serve and protect...

There is an epidemic of harassment and brutal treatment of minorities
by cops in the U.S. right now, and they must be classed as state
sanctioned bullies, or else more would be done to stop them. It's a
disgrace! It's a stain of shame on the face of the white race here.
--
Laura Goodwin

" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."

(William Shakespeare)

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 11:41:53 -0400
From: Matt Garrett <1indiana@norfolk.infi.net
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: unsubscribe
Message-ID: <31B45941.7F43@norfolk.infi.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

forgive me folks, but how do I
unsubscribe from this forum. My
mailer can no longer handle the
volume. Thank you. I have enjoyed the
information. Matt.

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 08:35:37 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Pro-choice internet action
Message-Id: <199606041535.IAA06245@dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com

** Topic: Pro-Choice Internet Action **
** Written 10:56 AM May 31, 1996 by wilpfnatl in cdp:wilpf.hotline **
In a message dated 96-03-15 18:45:19 EST, kieran@wam.umd.edu
(Kieran Blake Mcgrath) writes:
please read, sign and pass this along.

FREE SPEECH IS A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT
Subject: abortion on the Internet

As many of you may know, on February 1, 1996, both houses of
congress passed a telecommunications bill that has made it illegal
to discuss abortion anywhere on the internet. This includes
newsgroups, web pages, ftp sites, gopher sites, and e-mails of any
kind. On Thursday, February 8, President Clinton signed the bill
into law. The law has gone into effect as of midnight, February
9. This makes this e-mail illegal and punishable hy jail time or
heavy fines. The federal government is abusing its power and its
citizenry in gross violation of the Constitution.

This e-mail can be used as a form of civil disobedience, Please
sign your name on the list below, and forward it to as many people
as possible. Once again, this e-mail is illegal, and a copy of
every e-mail sent anywhere may also be sent to the FCC [???]. You
can also change the signature on your e-mail (if you use Eudora or
a similar program) to have some mention of the law and your
opposition to it. Once you send this e-mail, you will have
resisted the government's attempt to curtail your freedom of
speech. If every fifteenth person sends a copy of this e-mail to
President Clinton at
something done this.

_________________________________________________________________


I object to the U.S. government's prohibition of any discussion of
abortion on the internet.

1. Elizabeth Katz, student, Vassar College
2. Julienne Silverman, Vassar College
3. Joanna Kalb, Cornell University
4. Lucinda Schutzman, Shoreham-Wading River High School
5. Jate Murnane, Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State U.
6. John Evans, Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State U.
7. Alexandra Hartman, University of Virginia
8. Sherry Edwards, Christopher Newport University
9. Moin Hussaini, JOhns Hopkins University
10. Thomas Jones, JOhns Hopkins University
11. Steven Donnally, Johns Hopkins University
12. Susanna Henighan, Oberlin College
13. Rachel Henighan, Swarthmore College
14. Katie Klingehsmith, Swarthmore College
15. Chris Flood, Swarthmore College
16. Toki REhder, Swarthmore College
17. Halsey Varady, Yale University
18. Peter Foonster Morris, Yale University
19. Stephanie Morris, Brown University
20. Lev Osherovich, University of Colorado, Boulder
21. Owen Vajk, Reed College
22. Fiona Vajk, University of Colorado, Boulder
23. Peter Bloser, Harvard University
24. Elana Messer, Harvard University
25. Atissa Banuazizi, Harvard University
26. Kathleen Sterling, Harvard University
27. Nicole Jampol, New York University Medical School
28. Ben Hamar, New York University Medical School
29. Holly Parker, Dartmouth College
30. Hannah Mertaugh, Dartmouth College
31. Sandra Maruszak, Dartmouth College
32. Susan Cobb, Sales Manager, Inner Traditions Int'l
33. Cheryl McEaney, Rykodisc/Salem MA
34. Leo Wetherill, ThoughtPort Authority Inc., Columbia MO
35. Richard Fish, Bloomington IN
36. Mike Kelleher, Bloomington IN
37. Diane Kelleher, Palo Alto, CA
38. Allison Hamilton, Washington, DC
39. Kim Mondelli, Corvallis, OR
40. Marilyn Clement, Women's International League for Peace and
Freedom, Phila, PA
41. Deborah Zubow, Phila, PA
42. Kathleen O'Donnell, Phila PA
43. Laura Goodwin, Hartford, CT

** End of text from cdp:wilpf.hotline **

***********************************************************************
This material came from PeaceNet, a non-profit progressive networking
service. For more information, send a message to
peacenet-info@igc.apc.org
***********************************************************************



--
Laura Goodwin

" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."

(William Shakespeare)

the subject "help".

--------------------------------
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------------------------------

Content-Type: text/plain

femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 93

Today's Topics:
Re: Pro-choice internet action
Re: Policeforce
Re: Policeforce.
Re: Harassing women on the net.
Re: Pro-choice internet action
Re: Pro-choice internet action
Re: Pro-choice internet action
Re: Pro-choice internet action
Re: Pro-choice internet action
Re: Pro-choice internet action
Tantra catalog

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 11:58:24 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Pro-choice internet action
Message-ID: <31B48750.3471@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

I think a more positive strategy .. one that does not put us at
risk...is to note...that there are over 100 references to abortion in
the Bible. Therefore, if any one is telling people to read the bible
from their spot on the web...they are breaking the Comstock provision in
the Telecommunications Act of 1996....a better strategy would be to go
find sites that tell people to read the bible and turn them into the
FCC..let them spend their money hiring lawyers to defend themselves from
the Telecommunications ACT...I call that Goddess Justice.
Patricia


Laura Goodwin wrote:

** Topic: Pro-Choice Internet Action **
** Written 10:56 AM May 31, 1996 by wilpfnatl in cdp:wilpf.hotline **
In a message dated 96-03-15 18:45:19 EST, kieran@wam.umd.edu
(Kieran Blake Mcgrath) writes:
please read, sign and pass this along.

FREE SPEECH IS A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT
Subject: abortion on the Internet

As many of you may know, on February 1, 1996, both houses of
congress passed a telecommunications bill that has made it illegal
to discuss abortion anywhere on the internet. This includes
newsgroups, web pages, ftp sites, gopher sites, and e-mails of any
kind. On Thursday, February 8, President Clinton signed the bill
into law. The law has gone into effect as of midnight, February
9. This makes this e-mail illegal and punishable hy jail time or
heavy fines. The federal government is abusing its power and its
citizenry in gross violation of the Constitution.

This e-mail can be used as a form of civil disobedience, Please
sign your name on the list below, and forward it to as many people
as possible. Once again, this e-mail is illegal, and a copy of
every e-mail sent anywhere may also be sent to the FCC [???]. You
can also change the signature on your e-mail (if you use Eudora or
a similar program) to have some mention of the law and your
opposition to it. Once you send this e-mail, you will have
resisted the government's attempt to curtail your freedom of
speech. If every fifteenth person sends a copy of this e-mail to
President Clinton at
something done this.

_________________________________________________________________

I object to the U.S. government's prohibition of any discussion of
abortion on the internet.

1. Elizabeth Katz, student, Vassar College
2. Julienne Silverman, Vassar College
3. Joanna Kalb, Cornell University
4. Lucinda Schutzman, Shoreham-Wading River High School
5. Jate Murnane, Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State U.
6. John Evans, Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State U.
7. Alexandra Hartman, University of Virginia
8. Sherry Edwards, Christopher Newport University
9. Moin Hussaini, JOhns Hopkins University
10. Thomas Jones, JOhns Hopkins University
11. Steven Donnally, Johns Hopkins University
12. Susanna Henighan, Oberlin College
13. Rachel Henighan, Swarthmore College
14. Katie Klingehsmith, Swarthmore College
15. Chris Flood, Swarthmore College
16. Toki REhder, Swarthmore College
17. Halsey Varady, Yale University
18. Peter Foonster Morris, Yale University
19. Stephanie Morris, Brown University
20. Lev Osherovich, University of Colorado, Boulder
21. Owen Vajk, Reed College
22. Fiona Vajk, University of Colorado, Boulder
23. Peter Bloser, Harvard University
24. Elana Messer, Harvard University
25. Atissa Banuazizi, Harvard University
26. Kathleen Sterling, Harvard University
27. Nicole Jampol, New York University Medical School
28. Ben Hamar, New York University Medical School
29. Holly Parker, Dartmouth College
30. Hannah Mertaugh, Dartmouth College
31. Sandra Maruszak, Dartmouth College
32. Susan Cobb, Sales Manager, Inner Traditions Int'l
33. Cheryl McEaney, Rykodisc/Salem MA
34. Leo Wetherill, ThoughtPort Authority Inc., Columbia MO
35. Richard Fish, Bloomington IN
36. Mike Kelleher, Bloomington IN
37. Diane Kelleher, Palo Alto, CA
38. Allison Hamilton, Washington, DC
39. Kim Mondelli, Corvallis, OR
40. Marilyn Clement, Women's International League for Peace and
Freedom, Phila, PA
41. Deborah Zubow, Phila, PA
42. Kathleen O'Donnell, Phila PA
43. Laura Goodwin, Hartford, CT

** End of text from cdp:wilpf.hotline **

*********************************************************************** This material came from PeaceNet, a non-profit progressive networking
service. For more information, send a message to
peacenet-info@igc.apc.org
***********************************************************************
--
Laura Goodwin

" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."

(William Shakespeare)

___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".

--
MZê

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 12:23:06 -0400
From: SubFcheryl@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Policeforce
Message-ID: <960604122303_406968062@emout19.mail.aol.com

During the early 70's, former Justice of the Supreme Court, Thurgood
Marshall, had to view an "art film" (now a classic pornographic movie) as
part of case the Supreme Court was hearing on obscenity laws. As the
justices were leaving the viewing room set up in the Courts building, a
reporter asked Mr Marshall if the movie had swayed his opin of the courts
views on obscenity. To which the justice replied, "After viewing the film. I
still cannot define obscenity, but now I know what it is when I see it."
Police officers, of all sizes, shades and sexes come under a lot of fire,
most probably don't join the force to have a cover to enforce a personal
agenda. They are only human and undoubtedly fall victim to sterotyping
peoples and areas. Unfortunately, this sometimes results in their utilizing
excessive force in retaliation for the frustration over an inability of the
present legal system to ensure justice. I would not concern myself over the
psyciatric profile of the "new" poice officer as I would the seasoned one who
has felt betrayal and frustration. Bigots are bigots. We are all to one
extent prejudice, it is a result of how we are raised and the true crux of
the matter is how we treat individuals. If we allow our prejudices to
influence the way we treat people, then we wronged. "Let he amongst you
without sin cast the first stone."

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 10:46:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chase Vogelsberg
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com (FemSupremacy)
Subject: Re: Policeforce.
Message-Id: <199606041746.KAA02545@eskimo.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I think this a most tastless generalization, and I resent it! Produce
the evidence please. There a are most likely a few bad apples, but the
people applying for a position in the police force are submitted to
psychological tests to try keep those who are not suited out of the force.

Heh. "Evidence" in such matters is rather hard to produce, wouldn't you
agree Magnus? It's kinda like a survey asking people if they beat their
spouses - an overwhelming majority are -not- going to say "Yes" no matter
what. But I think I can give some basis for my tasteless generalizations,
as well as some commentary on what you've said, an' what I perceive as
coloring your perception.

Firstly - you're over in northern europe, an' I really do think your police
force is quite dissimilar from what's found in america. You seem to think
that psychological exams are given to prospective law enforcement types
here.... And that's in general untrue, with the exception of certain 'elite'
outfits such as FBI & CIA. It's almost impossible to require an american
citizen in good standing to take such an exam - if a person has a reasonably
clean police record, passes an placement test type exam and meets certain
minimum educational standards, they can join the police force. Americans
tend to view even physical examinations (such as urinalysis tests for drug
use) as somewhat unconstitutional, never mind letting someone poke around
inside our brains. It's basically the same thing as the military, in that
sense.

Now, did I make a tastless generalization? "... guys who join the force were
often football jocks or bullies in school, and see policehood as an extension
of that - get paid to be macho, with an excuse to beat on people at will."
Hmmm, I guess from a certain perspective I did. *shrugs* I did say "were
-often-", even if I didn't stress the word, and I will stand by the statement
as a whole.

I haven't been a cop, myself.... But I spent 8 years in the marines, which
is in some ways quite similar. (Speaking from personal experience, and from
talking with both military and civilian police) Neither vocation tends to
draw very many pacifists, for the simple reason that neither is a career in
which one can reasonably expect to avoid violence - quite the contrary. For
individuals with aggresive, violent tendencies, _both_ provide an environment
where that aggression is, if not encouraged, then at least accepted. In fact,
they're a few of the rare vocations where those tendencies can be harnessed
for society's benefit, even if society doesn't approve of the traits.

Both law enforcement and the military are somewhat isolationist, viewing
themselves apart from the civilian population, having more in common with one
another than with the general populace. They hold themselves to standards
of behavior that are in many ways much more rigorous than civilian standards,
and both tend to do most of the socializing within their own kind.

For police it's even worse than for military - as the saying goes, no-one
wants a cop to come to their party. Too much suspicion that when they get
drunk and gossip or brag about breaking some minor law that the cop will take
official notice, too much discomfort with having an officer there when some
of the guests might just decide to start indulging in some proscribed sub-
stance and perhaps get busted. Too many kids who spit or yell profanity as
a cop walks by - too many adults doing the same. There really aren't all
that many reasons to take up the police force as a career, when compared to
all the reasons not to....

So, certain types tend to join, more than others. The ones, male or female,
who are determined to prove themselves better than where they came from. I
see this most often in minority officers, who often make examples of them-
selves to hopefully inspire other youngsters to do something worthwhile with
their lives. The ones who simply can't fit into civilian life, who want a
certain level of discipline in their lives, a certain sense of camaraderie
with those they work - ex-military, oftentimes. Ones who simply the force
as a paycheck, a better job than others they could get with their skills,
regardless of the drawbacks.

And yes - the ones who, as I said, want the power, want the violence, the
feeling of belong to an elite fraternity, who to one extent or another enjoy
the nervous, respectful reactions of the crowds, and the knowledge that they
can respond enthusiastically to disrespect. It's why we have so many state
troopers and sheriffs in rural parts of the country whose first instinct in
a situation is to crack some heads, why you can see televised video-clips of
police kicking suspects, and why in big cities you can watch police casually
intimidating or harassing certain types of people, simply because they can.
A certain amount of them simply like knowing that most innocent, respectable
people will call them "Sir" when asked a question.

Power tends to attract those who want power, and policemen have power. In
my opinion, law enforcement, like politics, attracts a disproportionate
number of people (mostly men) who are there for that power, for the perks,
for the right to use/abuse that power, just as certain other professions such
as doctors, lawyers and profession sports tend to attract those motivated by
greed, and why 'sheep' tend to take up average jobs, living ho-hum average
lifes, for a lack of ambition, good or bad. My "tasteless generalizations"
aren't against policemen per se, Magnus. They're against humanity in general,
and MANkind most of all. (And I'll wager this time I offended more than the
police - because people will interpret something I said in reverse

But.... A violent, aggressive, testerone driven person joining the police
force isn't necessarily such a bad thing - it can actually be noble, even
the best possible choice. Ditto for the military. Either way, there does
need to be at least a crude morality, a sense of honor or discipline, that
keeps that hostility in check until it is called for. Sadly, that's often
missing.

-- \_awless is : A wolf, wild at heart, with a heart of darkness.
-- Chase Vogelsberg (lawless@netcom.com / lawless@eskimo.com)
--
-- A cynic is an idealist with a few too many years experience.

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 11:30:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chase Vogelsberg
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com (FemSupremacy)
Subject: Re: Harassing women on the net.
Message-Id: <199606041830.LAA06633@eskimo.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Magnus writes, regarding mark and others harassing/hitting on women on the
net, and with a vicious "Reply-to:" line in his headers Why are men compelled to do this?

Ahem. Men aren't. -Some- men are compelled to, or otherwise do these
stupid obnoxious tasteless things. Many others don't.

This kind of behavior really makes me feel shame on the behalf of these
men :(.

This is a logic I have never understood : Second-hand shame. Magnus, you
didn't indulge in this behavior. Neither did I, nor did we encourage it or
even silently ignore / accept it. Why should you feel shame? Anger at the
men who do so, or disgust or disdain, I could understand...

Too often people are expected to assume guilt, to feel ashamed, of things
they had nothing to do with. A person is herself or himself, responsible
for their actions and thoughts, not for those of their ancestors, gender,
race or religion. We all carry our own karmic burden.

If men harass women, and abuse them, I am not guilty of the same. Even if
I were standing there watching, I shouldn't feel ashamed or embarassed
because of their actions. If I could have stopped it, could have spoken
out against it, and wanted to but didn't, then I'm guilty - but of cowardice
or sloth, for not doing what I thought was right. If you or I couldn't do
anything, there's no reason for shame....

But all too often, a person -can- do something, but doesn't, for fear of the
consequences. In which case, perhaps they're guilty of more than the active
offender, who may not be capable of being better than she or he is.

Heh. I seem to be in danger of becoming an amateur philosopher here. ;-

-- \_awless is : A wolf, wild at heart, with a heart of darkness.
-- Chase Vogelsberg (lawless@netcom.com / lawless@eskimo.com)
--
-- Philosopher : Someone with too much time on his hands, and not nearly
-- enough callouses.

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 20:04:18 +0000
From: Christine & David Stevenson
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Pro-choice internet action
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960604200418.006889a0@mail.telepac.pt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 11:58 04/06/96 -0700, you wrote:
I think a more positive strategy .. one that does not put us at
risk...is to note...that there are over 100 references to abortion in
the Bible. Therefore, if any one is telling people to read the bible
from their spot on the web...they are breaking the Comstock provision in
the Telecommunications Act of 1996....a better strategy would be to go
find sites that tell people to read the bible and turn them into the
FCC..let them spend their money hiring lawyers to defend themselves from
the Telecommunications ACT...I call that Goddess Justice.
Patricia

I can understand why US citizens might feel at risk. I am fortunate in
living in a country which does still have free speech. I don't think US
officers can arrest me here. I think the point of civil resistence is that
if enough people resist the goverment becomes embarrased by it's inability
to arrest and imprison them all. I think US citizens should examine their
position and plunge in and take the risk where they can. Of course this is
easy for me to say living at a safe distance.

But if you value what is left of your free speech, you have little choice.

I have appended my name to the petition and mailed it to
president@whitehouse.gov.

I have on this occasion reverted to using my own surname rather than signing
in my married name, as I feel that it might look better with two different
names. I am sure Christine will append her name and mail it to the president
on her return from England.

I have also E-mailed the following letter to the president with the Subject
line
America worse than Iran! If anyone cares to supply a mailing list I'll be
happy to mail copies of it to other political leaders in the US.

David Stevenson (nee Harley).

snip. snip.

Dear Mr. President,

As a British Citizen I have always admired the United States Constitution
and political system.

UNTIL NOW!

I understand that you have signed into law on February 8, 1996, a
telecommunications bill that has made it illegal
to discuss abortion anywhere on the internet. This includes
e-mails of any kind. I believe you are in gross violation of the US
Constitution.

Why should this concern me, a resident of another country?

Quite simply because it restricts my ability to hold a free conversation by
Email with friends who are US citizens! I can talk to them, but they cannot
answer.

Email is the modern equivalent of the ordinary letter post.

Would you consider making it illegal for US citizens to discuss such matters
in ordinary letters to each other through the mail? perhaps you already have!

It seems to me that the United States is fast becoming like some third world
fascist dictatorship.

Will you arrest my friends for simply being in receipt of my mail? If not,
your bill is a sad farce!

Will you be requiring women to wear a veil in public next?

sincerely shocked,

David Harley, British Citizen, Portugal.(a country which still has freedom
of speech!)

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 12:06:28 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Pro-choice internet action
Message-Id: <199606041906.MAA08094@dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com

Patricia wrote:

...a better strategy would be to go find sites that tell people to
read the bible and turn them into the FCC..let them spend their money
hiring lawyers to defend themselves from the Telecommunications
ACT...I call that Goddess Justice.

I call it tilting at windmills. I don't honestly think that we'll have
any success in banning the Bible anytime soon. All the fundies have to
do if somebody complains about Biblical references to abortion is to
shrug and say, "...but it's the *Bible*!" Case dismissed as frivolous.
Next case. Would any lamb be found innocent if the wolves were
judges? How about any wolf?

We don't *favor* banning and censorship, remember? We have to employ
different tactics. Constitutionally protected tactics like petitioning
for a redress of grievences, for example. What that legislation
purports to do is to rob us of heretofore Constitutionally protected
free speech. Use it, or lose it. No rights are worth the paper they
are written on if we don't continually fight to preserve them. There
are lots of way to do this. Pick one. Even a hopelessly Quixotic one.
:)

--
Laura Goodwin

" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."

(William Shakespeare)

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 15:09:12 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Pro-choice internet action
Message-ID: <31B4B408.7F58@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Go to one of my Webpages at:
http://www.mainartery.com/govt.html and you will find a connection to
the email addresses of everyone....in Washington D.C. U.S.
government..every house member, every senate member
pat




Christine & David Stevenson wrote:

At 11:58 04/06/96 -0700, you wrote:
I think a more positive strategy .. one that does not put us at
risk...is to note...that there are over 100 references to abortion in
the Bible. Therefore, if any one is telling people to read the bible
from their spot on the web...they are breaking the Comstock provision in
the Telecommunications Act of 1996....a better strategy would be to go
find sites that tell people to read the bible and turn them into the
FCC..let them spend their money hiring lawyers to defend themselves from
the Telecommunications ACT...I call that Goddess Justice.
Patricia

I can understand why US citizens might feel at risk. I am fortunate in
living in a country which does still have free speech. I don't think US
officers can arrest me here. I think the point of civil resistence is that
if enough people resist the goverment becomes embarrased by it's inability
to arrest and imprison them all. I think US citizens should examine their
position and plunge in and take the risk where they can. Of course this is
easy for me to say living at a safe distance.

But if you value what is left of your free speech, you have little choice.

I have appended my name to the petition and mailed it to
president@whitehouse.gov.

I have on this occasion reverted to using my own surname rather than signing
in my married name, as I feel that it might look better with two different
names. I am sure Christine will append her name and mail it to the president
on her return from England.

I have also E-mailed the following letter to the president with the Subject
line
America worse than Iran! If anyone cares to supply a mailing list I'll be
happy to mail copies of it to other political leaders in the US.

David Stevenson (nee Harley).

snip. snip.

Dear Mr. President,

As a British Citizen I have always admired the United States Constitution
and political system.

UNTIL NOW!

I understand that you have signed into law on February 8, 1996, a
telecommunications bill that has made it illegal
to discuss abortion anywhere on the internet. This includes
e-mails of any kind. I believe you are in gross violation of the US
Constitution.

Why should this concern me, a resident of another country?

Quite simply because it restricts my ability to hold a free conversation by
Email with friends who are US citizens! I can talk to them, but they cannot
answer.

Email is the modern equivalent of the ordinary letter post.

Would you consider making it illegal for US citizens to discuss such matters
in ordinary letters to each other through the mail? perhaps you already have!

It seems to me that the United States is fast becoming like some third world
fascist dictatorship.

Will you arrest my friends for simply being in receipt of my mail? If not,
your bill is a sad farce!

Will you be requiring women to wear a veil in public next?

sincerely shocked,

David Harley, British Citizen, Portugal.(a country which still has freedom
of speech!)

___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".

--
MZê

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 13:06:20 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Pro-choice internet action
Message-Id: <199606042006.NAA03560@dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com

Pat wrote:

http://www.mainartery.com/govt.html and you will find a connection to
the email addresses of everyone....in Washington D.C.

Hey, thanks a lot! :)
--
Laura Goodwin

" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."

(William Shakespeare)

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 16:17:10 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Pro-choice internet action
Message-ID: <31B4C3F6.1327@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Your welcome, I am a very politically active FemDOM
Patricia


Laura Goodwin wrote:

Pat wrote:

http://www.mainartery.com/govt.html and you will find a connection to
the email addresses of everyone....in Washington D.C.

Hey, thanks a lot! :)
--
Laura Goodwin

" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."

(William Shakespeare)

___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".

--
MZê

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 18:01:39 -0400
From: RicRalph@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Pro-choice internet action
Message-ID: <960604180138_127823127@emout19.mail.aol.com

Ralph Richter, Columbus OH

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 15:48:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com (Female Supremacy List)
Subject: Tantra catalog
Message-Id: <199606042248.PAA21671@netcom15.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1002

I'm back from three days in the mountains (where it wasn't the 112 F /
45 degrees C that it is here) and find I have about 100 pieces of mail.
Among was an them an online catalog of Tantra and related books, tapes,
videos, products, etc.

I just forwarded the catalog to Dee for the Resources archive, but a faster
way probably to get your copy would be to write to
catalog@tantra.com
and ask for it. (NB: it's about 27K of ASCII text, one reason why I didn't
re-post it here.)

Pro-choice and free to discuss abortion wherever I choose, I remain
--
coyote sings / man and sky / amfas@netcom.com

Show up. Lighten up. Pay attention. Feel awe. Make it count.
The rest is hidden.

the subject "help".

--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #93
***********************************************

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------------------------------

Content-Type: text/plain

femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 94

Today's Topics:
Jurisdiction, restrictions on elec. comm. (Was: Re: Pro-choice internet action)
Trust (was off the original topic of women who rape)
Re: Pro-choice internet action
Police Lover
Re: Pro-choice internet action
Re: Police Lover
Re: Sexuality & ADHD
if you cannot get to email
Pro-choice internet action
Re: Police, etc.
The down-and-dirty tactics of the totalitarian religious right!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Jun 96 02:20:19 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Jurisdiction, restrictions on elec. comm. (Was: Re: Pro-choice internet action)
Message-Id: <199606050018.CAA24254@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On Tue, 4 Jun 1996 08:35:37 -0700, Laura Goodwin wrote:

As many of you may know, on February 1, 1996, both houses of
congress passed a telecommunications bill that has made it illegal
to discuss abortion anywhere on the internet. This includes
newsgroups, web pages, ftp sites, gopher sites, and e-mails of any
kind. On Thursday, February 8, President Clinton signed the bill

As repulsive as this law may be, it has no jurisdiction outside of the
U.S.A., so it's not illegal 'to discuss abortion anywhere on the
internet'. In theory I could be extradited for writing indecent words like
shit and piss here in Sweden, and then sending it electronically to the
U.S.A., since I believe Sweden has a reciprocal extradition agreement with
the U.S.A., but in practice that most likely won't happen, since this is
such a minor crime.

The Swedish minister responsible for issues regarding IT (Ines Uusmann)
has stated publically, that she considers it to be neither desirable nor
possible to censor the internet. I'm not so sure that the EC shares her
conviction though, since e.g. Germany has a lot of influence on the
decisions made there, so there is still a danger of a similar restriction
being imposed on electronic communication in Europe.

---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden
Hiroshima 45, Tjernobyl 86, Windows 95 ...

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 18:05:13 -0700
From: Jet
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Trust (was off the original topic of women who rape)
Message-ID: <31B4DD49.6260@nwlink.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Noble wrote:

That's why it is very important that a DOM take the time to talk and
build trust with a sub. Any sub who just jumps into a sexual.. bondage
situation without taking the time to feel safe...is asking for trouble.
These relationships require more talking and communication than a
marriage. It is most important to me that in the beginning everything
be discussed before hand, before sessions, during sessions and then
doing a review afterwards. Once a relationship is established...it is
not necessary to keep up this level of "check-ins" thats why I love a
live in. but still check ins can be fun.
Patricia


Patricia--

That is it exactly. Also when a sub says when asked what his/her limits are:
"I have NO limits," is asking for trouble. Even though the sub I was referring
to had been into the scene for over 5-6 years, he was with someone he did not
know very well and she did not respect his limits or boundaries. It's very hard
to express limits and boundaries when one is bound and gagged, and especially
so if the Domme/Dom doesn't respect the signals...

Jet

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 02:34:06 +0000
From: Christine & David Stevenson
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Pro-choice internet action
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960605023406.0068dccc@mail.telepac.pt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 15:09 04/06/96 -0700, Pat wrote:
Go to one of my Webpages at:
http://www.mainartery.com/govt.html and you will find a connection to
the email addresses of everyone....in Washington D.C. U.S.
government..every house member, every senate member
pat


I have asked the agora server to bring more home page text. From there I
will begin to collect addresses and send out the mail.

I imagine you've all seen the auto response from the Whitehouse so I will
not waste your band width with it.

But it does give two other Email addresses, VP, and First Lady.

Regards,

David Stevenson.

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 13:38:46 +1200
From: Tracey
To: femsupremacy-digest@renaissoft.com (Non Receipt Notification Requested)
Subject: Police Lover
Message-ID: <3629381305061996/A02879/DALEK/11A62B661C00*@MHS
Content-Identifier: 11A62B661C00

Okay so America has "wanky" cops. I think they may have a right to. Where
else in the world do the police have to deal with road-rage, people on crack,
acid, pcp, gun happy kids, driveby shootings... oh yeah, the US police are just
terrible.

If I had a job where my life is always on the line, then I won't be using
niceties when arresting someone, and that someone may shoot me in the back if
they had the means. It isn't the police, it's the type of criminals they have
to deal with. They have to treat everyone as their potential killer.

And all of you that have persecuted the police, who are you going to ring when
your house has been broken in to...

Sure you read about police harrassment, but you never read about the good that
they have done, the families they have saved, the rapist they caught...

Tracey

PS: They are going to attempt to censor discussion on abortion? Right, they
haven't even cracked down on pornography yet.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 03:10:07 +0000
From: Christine & David Stevenson
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Pro-choice internet action
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960605031007.0067b698@mail.telepac.pt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 18:01 04/06/96 -0400, Ralph wrote:

Ralph Richter, Columbus OH

I think you are supposed to type your name in at the bottom of the list and
mail it on to the president and/or anyone else you think might add their name.

Kind regards,

David Stevenson.

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 03:36:22 +0000
From: Christine & David Stevenson
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Police Lover
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960605033622.006aa2c0@mail.telepac.pt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 13:38 05/06/96 +1200, Tracey wrote:

PS: They are going to attempt to censor discussion on abortion? Right, they
haven't even cracked down on pornography yet.

No but the technique of these people is to use an issue like abortion or
child pornography which gets moral majority support. Then when we are not
looking, the laws they introduce stop us buying Cosmopolitan or exchanging
Email. As a Brit I've seen this technique used there all my life. It is
deliberate, and very cynical! Make no mistake.

(Cosmopolitan was picked as innocuous, just as an off the cuff example, my
first thought was Woman's Own, but I'm not sure if that is as
internationally recognised)
;

Laura Goodwin's point is valid. If you don't use it, you lose it. Speak up
or forever hold your piece(strike that) peace.

Yes we should praise the police more when they do their job properly every
day of the week 365 days of the year.

But when we see film at eleven of horrifying beatings, it sets one wondering
just how many bad apples before you throw out the barrel.

Kind regards,
David Stevenson.

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 00:18:59 -0400
From: mark
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Sexuality & ADHD
Message-Id: <199606050418.AAA10516@recom.recom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 05:44 AM 6/4/96 -0700, you wrote:
Why these guys think they would be better than someone I knew and
loved is beyond me. The ego involved in those statements is just
amazing.

Dee-Ann

Yo DEE-ANN,......Lighten up!!!!

Thank you for you comments Dee-Ann. Mark, it is you who should be
learning something from this.
--
Laura Goodwin

Although i didn't mean any disrespect ma'am, i do apoligize if i offended you.


" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."

(William Shakespeare)

___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".




the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 00:07:03 -0700
From: Noble
To: Femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: if you cannot get to email
Message-ID: <31B53217.A21@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

of government from my site...go to
gopher://una.hh.lib.umich.edu/0/socsci/poliscilaw/uslegi/conemail
that is where my site is linked too..good luck
patricia

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 05:02:16 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Pro-choice internet action
Message-Id: <199606051202.FAA27747@dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com

Magnus wrote:

As repulsive as this law may be, it has no jurisdiction outside of
the U.S.A., so it's not illegal 'to discuss abortion anywhere on the
internet'. In theory I could be extradited for writing indecent words
like shit and piss here in Sweden, and then sending it electronically
to the U.S.A., since I believe Sweden has a reciprocal extradition
agreement with the U.S.A., but in practice that most likely won't
happen, since this is such a minor crime.

No kidding! They are not after small fry like us anyway, they are
after big time pornographers and Mafia types, but they can't catch
them, so they'll end up persecuting a random few unlucky citizens.

neither desirable nor possible to censor the internet.

That's right, it's an impossible task. As for desirable, I'm sure all
of us have at least one net denizen we'd like to hear less from. But
to enjoy freedom for ourselves we have to tolerate those we disagree
with, and everyone except the fundies seems to understand this.
Fundamentalist Xians are intolerant and conservative by nature and by
rigorous training, and they will never get it. The only way to get
peace on the net is to censor those Bozos, but they are better
organized, and got their law in under the wire first.

I saw a bumpersticker today: "Jesus is Peace. No Jesus, No Peace."
Is it just me, or does that sound like a threat?

Anyway, be determined to fight this thing, because a fight it is.


--
Laura Goodwin

" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."

(William Shakespeare)

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 05:49:30 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Police, etc.
Message-Id: <199606051249.FAA01838@dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com

Tracey wrote:

Okay so America has "wanky" cops. I think they may have a right to.
If I had a job where my life is always on the line, then I won't be
using niceties when arresting someone

Tracey, they are human, and like any human under tremendous pressure
can snap, can make mistakes. They are not entitled to do so, though.
In fact, they are forbidden to do so by law, and they are supposed to
be enforcing the law, not breaking it.

And all of you that have persecuted the police, who are you going to
ring when your house has been broken in to...

Wait a sec: The police are not persecuted. They are paid to do a
difficult and dangerous job that they volunteered for. I always depend
on the cops to help me, but I have seen with my own eyes cops going
berzerk on an innocent man. They came to my neighbor's to arrest his
roommate: when my neighbor said the roommate wasn't home and no, the
cops couldn't come in, they broke the door down, (3 of them), grabbed
him by his hair and smashed his head into 1) the door, 2) the wall, 3)
the stone coffee table, 4) the floor (several times). He was wrestled
into submission, handcuffed, then kicked in the gut several times. All
the apt. house was in an uproar. Children were crying, women were
screaming, men were running in all directions for help. The roommate
missed all of this. He came home later to find his door broken down,
his apt. in a shambles, and blood everywhere. The innocent guy who got
beat up was arrested, and sat shivering and bleeding in shock in the
pen all night...they didn't even let a doctor look at him. Later we
found out he had a fractured arm, 2 broken ribs, and a cracked skull.

When the POLICE break into your house, who do you call? You tell me.

In another incident cops "rescued" me from a rapist and would-be
murderer, and *forgot to arrest the guy*, letting him get away! Why?
They thought I was his girlfriend! I know, what difference does that
make? All the difference, apparently.

The cop in the patrol car was thunderstruck that I wanted the guy
arrested. I said: "Let me show you my ID: I want you to see I don't
normally look this way!" My whole face was bruised from a vicious
beating; my eyes were swollen shut, I was nearly blinded. "Look," I
said "Look, some people even think I'm pretty." and I started to cry.

"He's not your boyfriend?" he said.
"No!" I screamed "I HARDLY KNOW THE GUY!"
"You'll have to submit to an exam, and file a report..." he said, as if
that would help me to change my mind.
"FINE! FINE! EXAMINE ME NOW! I WANT TO FILE A REPORT RIGHT NOW!"
"You better calm down, young lady, or I'm turning around and taking you
to the mental hospital."

I swear this is a true story.

==================================

PS: They are going to attempt to censor discussion on abortion?
Right, they haven't even cracked down on pornography yet.

I agree, the whole idea is a joke. The once most free and universal
medium is now, with a wave of some ill-concieved U.S. legislation,
*poof* now one of the most restricted mediums!? I don't think so.
--
Laura Goodwin

" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."

(William Shakespeare)

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Jun 96 15:02:52 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "Fem. suprem."
Subject: The down-and-dirty tactics of the totalitarian religious right!
Message-Id: <199606051301.PAA01643@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I thought this would be of interest to the subscribers to this list. If
it isn't, let me know, and I won't do this again.

When I read this, a lot of not so pleasant feelings rear their ugly
heads. *This* is the kind of actions that tempt *me* to pick up an assault
rifle and do divine justive :(. After all freedom of speech is worth it.
These people are in the long run a threat to democracy. They will settle
for nothing short of a Religious Reich on the analogy of a nation like
Iran, and they don't hesitate to exploit children to achieve their goals.
If Joe Sixpack and Jane Homecoat don't wake up and vote, they soon won't
have to worry about it anymore at all.

==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE==================
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Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 17:18:34 -0800
To: telstar@wired.com
From: telstar@wired.com (--Todd Lappin--)
Subject: BACKGROUNDER: The Religious Right and CDA
Cc: jw@bway.net
Sender: owner-cda-bulletin-list@hotwired.com



Excuse me if my typing is a little sloppy... I've been biting my nails for
three days in anticipation of an imminent decision from the Philadelphia
court regarding the (un)constitutionality of the Communications Decency
Act.

Last week, I was told we might have a decision on Monday. Monday came and
went, then melted into Tuesday (today), and still we haven't received any
news from Philly. At last word, my contacts are hopeful that we'll have
the judges' decision on Thursday.

I hope they're right, because my fingertips are getting sore.

Meanwhile, as we nervously pace back and forth in this judicial waiting
room, I figure it's worth taking a minute to recall how we got here in the
first place.

The following article by Jonathan Wallace is an interesting overview of
how
the religious right conspired with a clueless Congress to secure passage
of
the Communications Decency Act earlier this year.

John writes, "Not only is the CDA an extension of the religious right's
campaign to dictate moral standards in traditional media; the CDA itself
is
a creature of the religious right, which had a significant hand in
sculpting it, lining up politicians to support it, and then supplying them
with the ammunition they needed to get it passed."

Read on for more gritty detail, and stay tuned to this frequency for
further announcements as soon as I learn more about the impending CDA
decision.

Work the network!

--Todd Lappin--
Section Editor
WIRED Magazine

========================================


THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT AND INTERNET CENSORSHIP

by Jonathan Wallace

(This article appeared in the May issue of Freedom Writer, the newsletter
of the Institute for First Amendment Studies.)

A trial taking place in Philadelphia now will determine the
constitutionality of the Communications Decency Act (CDA), a federal law
passed last fall which criminalizes the online "depiction or description"
of sexual acts and organs. By its terms, the CDA permits regulation of
electronic text far beyond what is permissible for books and magazines
under the First Amendment.

In the back of the courtroom, representatives of the religious right, such
as ex-prosecutor Bruce Taylor of the National Law Center for Children and
Families, are monitoring each day of the trial with intent interest.

Why are they there? Not only is the CDA an extension of the religious
right's campaign to dictate moral standards in traditional media; the CDA
itself is a creature of the religious right, which had a significant hand
in sculpting it, lining up politicians to support it, and then supplying
them with the ammunition they needed to get it passed.

Soon after the Republicans released their Contract with America, the
Christian Coalition responded with its Contract with the American Family;
item 10 called for strict regulation of the Internet to protect minors
against sexual material. Bruce Taylor responded to the Christian
Coalition's call. Taylor prosecuted more than sixty obscenity cases during
his tenure with the Department of Justice, before leaving to become
Executive Director of the National Law Center for Children and Families.
Working behind the scenes advising Nebraska Senator James J. Exon, a
conservative Democrat who had made the issue of Internet indecency his
own,
Taylor helped draft the CDA, first introduced by Exon during 1994. The
bill
expired that year but succeeded in becoming law in 1995, after the
election
of a Republican majority with ties to the religious right.

On June 12, 1995, the Senate initiated debate on the CDA with a prayer by
the Senate chaplain, Dr. Lloyd John Ogilvie: "Almighty God, Lord of all
life, we praise You for the advancements in computerized communications
that we enjoy in our time. Sadly, however, there are those who are
littering this information superhighway with obscene, indecent, and
destructive pornography." Senator Patrick Leahy of Vermont, foremost
adversary of the CDA, later commented that the Chaplain should "allow us
to
debate these issues and determine how they come out and maybe pray for our
guidance, but allow us to debate them. He may find that he has enough
other
duties, such as composing a prayer each morning for us, to keep him busy."

The entire Senate debate, spearheaded by Senator Exon and Republicans Dan
Coats and Charles Grassley, was informed by the sensibilities of the
religious right. The Senators read letters from the Christian Coalition
and
from Bruce Taylor into the record. More significantly, they flaunted
statistics from the notorious Marty Rimm "cyberporn" study two weeks
before
it was released in an exclusive article in the July 3rd Time magazine.
Apparently, the proponents of the CDA had been given a preview of the
study's contents.

Mike Godwin, staff counsel to the Electronic Frontier Foundation,
believes
that the religious right acted as the conduit between the Georgetown Law
Journal, then preparing the Rimm study for publication, and the
pro-censorship Senators. Godwin discovered that as early as November 1994,
Bruce Taylor was assisting Marty Rimm, then a junior at Carnegie Mellon,
in
preparing his study, a thesis project. Deen Kaplan, a Georgetown Law
student and editor of the Law Journal, shared office space with Taylor in
a
complex which also housed the National Coalition for Children and Families
and Donna Rice's organization, Enough is Enough. Another protege of
Taylor's, John McMickle, was now on Senator Grassley's staff, and assisted
him in drafting his own Internet indecency legislation. Deen Kaplan
compiled Senator Exon's "Blue Book" of Internet pornography, which he
brandished to great effect during the Senate discussions.

On June 14, Senator Coats of Indiana announced in the Senate that there
were 450,000 pornographic images and text files on the Net, which had been
accessed 6.4 million times in the last year. Although he did not give the
source of these statistics, they came directly from the still-secret Rimm
study. After its release in July, the cyberporn study was quickly
discredited as a scientific document and revealed to be the
publicity-seeking stunt of a university undergraduate, but the damage it
caused continues: the Department of Justice introduced the study as
evidence in the current trial of the CDA.

Ironically, the author soon tried to distance himself from the use the
religious right made of his study. Ralph Reed of the Christian Coalition
had praised the study on Nightline. Marty Rimm responded: "Frankly, my
sense is that things are getting blown out of proportion because people
are
angry that the study will be misappropriated. Their concerns are indeed
well-founded. For instance, Ralph Reed stated on Nightline that 'According
to the Carnegie Mellon University survey, one-quarter of all the images
involve the torture of women.' This is simply untrue; the Carnegie Mellon
study does not report any results concerning torture. Many others on
Capitol Hill have misappropriated the study as well."

Some Congressmen privately told constituents that they had no choice but
to
vote for a law which they believed the courts would later hold
unconstitutional; the Senate passed the CDA by a vote of 86-14.

The next day, Ralph Reed of the Christian Coalition exulted: "We are proud
and honored that the first item of the Contract With The American Family
that passed either house of Congress is designed to protect our
children...
We applaud Senators Coats and Exon for their decisive step forward to
protect our nation's youth from the real threat of cyber-porn, and we look
forward to swift action in the House."

For a while, it looked as if the CDA would be defeated in the House, where
Speaker Gingrich had announced that it was unconstitutional. The CDA was
never reported out of committee, and the House made a show of passing the
Cox-Wyden amendment, which lauded the Internet and announced that the FCC
would never have any role in regulating it.

However, in a remarkable manipulation of the procedural rules, Congressman
Henry Hyde of Illinois, another long-time supporter of the religious
right's agenda, added his own version of Internet indecency language to
the
Telecommunications Reform Act in a last minute "manager's mark amendment."
This swept to victory shortly afterwards as the House endorsed the Telcom
act, with most legislators completely unaware that Congressman Hyde had
tacked it on to the bill.

The next day, Ralph Reed said, apropos of this and other legislative
developments: "We are on a roll.... We never expected to make so much
progress so quickly... Our grassroots will stay engaged until the final
item is passed and signed by this or a future president." He made no
mention of the unsavory way in which Congressman Hyde had resuscitated a
law declared dead by the Speaker. A House-Senate conference commitee
reconciled the Exon and Hyde versions, and later that fall, President
Clinton signed the telcom bill, including the CDA, into law.

The religious right is not resting on its laurels. In addition to
attending
the Philadelphia case, it has taken to the media with an aggressive
defense
of the CDA. A few weeks ago, I debated ex-prosecutor Patrick Trueman, now
legislative affairs director for the American Family Association, on NBC's
America's Talking cable network. Trueman called the Internet "depraved"
and
accused me of wanting "to let the perverts go." Shortly after, he released
a letter to the press in which he called for the prosecution of the
Compuserve online service under the CDA for its alleged hosting of
pornographic images.

In her fine 1993 history of American arts censorship, ACLU attorney
Marjorie Heins wrote that "the message of religiously based 'profamily'
leaders like Reverend Donald Wildmon of the American Family Association or
Pat Robertson of the Christian Coalition was not merely that their views
on
sexuality, women's rights, reproductive freedom, and religion were
correct,
but that other views should not even be heard." These two organizations,
and others like them, have now mounted a pre-emptive strike against the
Internet.
###

Jonathan Wallace, a software executive and attorney, is co-author with
Mark
Mangan of Sex, Laws and Cyberspace, a book about Internet censorship
(Henry Holt, 1996) (http://www.spectacle.org/freespch/).


+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+
This transmission was brought to you by....

THE CDA DISASTER NETWORK

The CDA Disaster Network is a moderated distribution list providing
up-to-the-minute bulletins and background on efforts to overturn the
Communications Decency Act. To subscribe, send email to


WARNING: This is not a test! WARNING: This is not a drill!
+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+





===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE===================

---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden
Hiroshima 45, Tjernobyl 86, Windows 95 ...

the subject "help".

--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #94
***********************************************

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------------------------------

Content-Type: text/plain

femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 95

Today's Topics:
Re: Police, etc.
Apologies
In the news today...
Re: Police Lover
the above thread, MAgnus wrote,
Pro-choice internet action
Re: Pro-choice internet action
(SBA) Report
Re: Pro-choice internet action
Re: (SBA) Report
Re: (SBA) Report
Re: (SBA) Report
Re: Pro-choice internet action
Re: (SBA) Report
Re: Pro-choice internet action

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Jun 96 15:16:41 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Re: Police, etc.
Message-Id: <199606051315.PAA04127@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On Wed, 5 Jun 1996 05:49:30 -0700, Laura Goodwin wrote:

Wait a sec: The police are not persecuted. They are paid to do a
difficult and dangerous job that they volunteered for. I always depend
on the cops to help me, but I have seen with my own eyes cops going
berzerk on an innocent man. They came to my neighbor's to arrest his
roommate: when my neighbor said the roommate wasn't home and no, the
cops couldn't come in, they broke the door down, (3 of them), grabbed
him by his hair and smashed his head into 1) the door, 2) the wall, 3)
the stone coffee table, 4) the floor (several times). He was wrestled
into submission, handcuffed, then kicked in the gut several times. All
the apt. house was in an uproar. Children were crying, women were
screaming, men were running in all directions for help. The roommate
missed all of this. He came home later to find his door broken down,
his apt. in a shambles, and blood everywhere. The innocent guy who got
beat up was arrested, and sat shivering and bleeding in shock in the
pen all night...they didn't even let a doctor look at him. Later we
found out he had a fractured arm, 2 broken ribs, and a cracked skull.

When the POLICE break into your house, who do you call? You tell me.

The media? It seems to me that there were more than enough witnesses.
If the person subjected to this didn't take action, the problem will
continue to exist.

Why does the U.S.A. have this problem with its policeforces? There are
problems with the Swedish policeforce (e.g. right-wing extremists, use of
excessive force etc.), but it seems to be much more abundant in the U.S.A.
Why? Is it perhaps society's problem. You live in a very violent society
compared to Europe. Isn't it logical that the policeforces will reflect
this?

---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden
Hiroshima 45, Tjernobyl 86, Windows 95 ...

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 06:15:13 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Apologies
Message-Id: <199606051315.GAA16171@dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com

mark wrote:

Although i didn't mean any disrespect ma'am, i do apoligize if i
offended you.

OK mark. I'm over it.

May I give you a bit of advice? Although we often talk about really
personal stuff in this forum, please remember to be careful about
seeming too familiar too soon.

I admit I have a tendancy to get hot too easy, and I have been known to
overreact. I've had to *apologise* here once or twice for getting
insulting. It's good for the soul. :)



--
Laura Goodwin

" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."

(William Shakespeare)

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 06:28:43 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: In the news today...
Message-Id: <199606051328.GAA22901@dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com

From: NewsPage_Direct@individual.com
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 04:50:38 -0400

INDONESIAN POLICE CAPTURE ALLEGED PENIS BITER - Indonesian police
have arrested a man they have chased for two years following
allegations he bit the penises of at least five young schoolboys,
the official Antara news agency reported on Tuesday. [Reuters]

PORNOGRAPHY BILL PROPOSED - Republican Sen. Orrin Hatch proposed a
bill Tuesday aimed at computer-aided child pornography and lashed
out at Clinton-appointed judges and prosecutors as soft on such
crimes. [Associated Press]

CONGRESS URGED TO BAN COMPUTER-MADE CHILD PORN - Child pornography
created on computers is a growing threat to society and should be
outlawed, federal officials told a Senate hearing on Tuesday.
[Reuters]

UK - TWO JAILED IN INTERNET CHILD PORN CASE - Two men have been
jailed by Birmingham Crown Court for their part in distributing
child pornography across the Internet. The case is the first of its
type in the UK, Newsbytes notes. [Newsbytes]

LDP MEMBER SAYS ASIAN WOMEN NOT FORCED INTO PROSTITUTION - TOKYO,
June 4 _ A Liberal Democratic Party lawmaker said Tuesday the
wartime sex slaves for the Japanese Imperial Army were not forced
into prostitution. [Kyodo]

FIRED M.E. HORDED CORPSE PICS - A medical examiner who was fired
last year for insubordination kept unauthorized photographs of
corpses in his desk, including an autopsy photo of former Gov. Dixy
Lee Ray, her family said. [Associated Press]

MIAMI MAN ARRESTED IN SLAYINGS - A Miami man has confessed to
killing four women whose beaten and burned bodies were found in a
rundown part of the city, police said. [Associated Press]

GOP MOVE ON MENTAL HEALTH PLAN - Republicans intend to scuttle a
Senate-passed health care provision requiring insurance companies to
provide parity for treatment of mental illness, a leading senator
said Tuesday. [Associated Press]

MEDICARE FACES 2001 BANKRUPTCY - Medicare trustees will report
Wednesday that the hospital fund will be bankrupt in 2001, owing
$28.9 billion, said congressional Republicans who want President
Clinton to negotiate with them now on a solution. [Associated Press]
--
Laura Goodwin

" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."

(William Shakespeare)

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 11:42:22 -0400
From: Lonely2001@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Police Lover
Message-ID: <960605114221_407773277@emout14.mail.aol.com

In a message dated 96-06-04 22:37:03 EDT, you write:

No but the technique of these people is to use an issue like abortion or
child pornography which gets moral majority support. Then when we are not
looking, the laws they introduce stop us buying Cosmopolitan or exchanging
Email. As a Brit I've seen this technique used there all my life. It is
deliberate, and very cynical! Make no mistake.



It's known as the "slippery slope."

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 12:59:49 CDT
From: bodie167@houston.email.net
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: the above thread, MAgnus wrote,
Message-Id: <9606051259.S737265779@houston.email.net

As a Brit I've seen this technique used there all my life. It is
deliberate, and very cynical! Make no mistake.


to which anonymous replied: "It's known as the slippery slope,"
To which I refine: " . .and every slippery slope has its double-edged sword."
(Pardon the Mixaphor)" It cuts both ways and can -- as others have pointed
out -- be used against biblical references, etc.
bodie

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 13:54:28 -0500
From: sorceress@CYBEROTI.COM
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Pro-choice internet action
Message-ID:

FE** Topic: Pro-Choice Internet Action **
FE** Written 10:56 AM May 31, 1996 by wilpfnatl in cdp:wilpf.hotline **
FEIn a message dated 96-03-15 18:45:19 EST, kieran@wam.umd.edu
FE(Kieran Blake Mcgrath) writes:
FEplease read, sign and pass this along.

FEFREE SPEECH IS A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT
FESubject: abortion on the Internet

FEAs many of you may know, on February 1, 1996, both houses of
FEcongress passed a telecommunications bill that has made it illegal
FEto discuss abortion anywhere on the internet. This includes
FEnewsgroups, web pages, ftp sites, gopher sites, and e-mails of any
FEkind. On Thursday, February 8, President Clinton signed the bill
FEinto law. The law has gone into effect as of midnight, February
FE9. This makes this e-mail illegal and punishable hy jail time or
FEheavy fines. The federal government is abusing its power and its
FEcitizenry in gross violation of the Constitution.

FEThis e-mail can be used as a form of civil disobedience, Please
FEsign your name on the list below, and forward it to as many people
FEas possible. Once again, this e-mail is illegal, and a copy of
FEevery e-mail sent anywhere may also be sent to the FCC [???]. You
FEcan also change the signature on your e-mail (if you use Eudora or
FEa similar program) to have some mention of the law and your
FEopposition to it. Once you send this e-mail, you will have
FEresisted the government's attempt to curtail your freedom of
FEspeech. If every fifteenth person sends a copy of this e-mail to
FEPresident Clinton at
FEsomething done this.

FE_________________________________________________________________


FEI object to the U.S. government's prohibition of any discussion of
FEabortion on the internet.

FE 1. Elizabeth Katz, student, Vassar College
FE 2. Julienne Silverman, Vassar College
FE 3. Joanna Kalb, Cornell University
FE 4. Lucinda Schutzman, Shoreham-Wading River High School
FE 5. Jate Murnane, Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State U.
FE 6. John Evans, Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State U.
FE 7. Alexandra Hartman, University of Virginia
FE 8. Sherry Edwards, Christopher Newport University
FE 9. Moin Hussaini, JOhns Hopkins University
FE10. Thomas Jones, JOhns Hopkins University
FE11. Steven Donnally, Johns Hopkins University
FE12. Susanna Henighan, Oberlin College
FE13. Rachel Henighan, Swarthmore College
FE14. Katie Klingehsmith, Swarthmore College
FE15. Chris Flood, Swarthmore College
FE16. Toki REhder, Swarthmore College
FE17. Halsey Varady, Yale University
FE18. Peter Foonster Morris, Yale University
FE19. Stephanie Morris, Brown University
FE20. Lev Osherovich, University of Colorado, Boulder
FE21. Owen Vajk, Reed College
FE22. Fiona Vajk, University of Colorado, Boulder
FE23. Peter Bloser, Harvard University
FE24. Elana Messer, Harvard University
FE25. Atissa Banuazizi, Harvard University
FE26. Kathleen Sterling, Harvard University
FE27. Nicole Jampol, New York University Medical School
FE28. Ben Hamar, New York University Medical School
FE29. Holly Parker, Dartmouth College
FE30. Hannah Mertaugh, Dartmouth College
FE31. Sandra Maruszak, Dartmouth College
FE32. Susan Cobb, Sales Manager, Inner Traditions Int'l
FE33. Cheryl McEaney, Rykodisc/Salem MA
FE34. Leo Wetherill, ThoughtPort Authority Inc., Columbia MO
FE35. Richard Fish, Bloomington IN
FE36. Mike Kelleher, Bloomington IN
FE37. Diane Kelleher, Palo Alto, CA
FE38. Allison Hamilton, Washington, DC
FE39. Kim Mondelli, Corvallis, OR
FE40. Marilyn Clement, Women's International League for Peace and
FEFreedom, Phila, PA
FE41. Deborah Zubow, Phila, PA
FE42. Kathleen O'Donnell, Phila PA
FE43. Laura Goodwin, Hartford, CT
Barbara Kent, Dix Hills, NY


FE--
FELaura Goodwin

FE" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."

FE(William Shakespeare)

FE___________________________________________________________________
FEQuestions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
FEFor a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
FEmail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".
CybErotiComm Online

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 13:03:19 -0700
From: Jet
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Pro-choice internet action
Message-ID: <31B5E807.7DBA@nwlink.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I am getting so tired of the "Big Brother" mentality out there...I sent
off a copy to the white house and then mailed off copies to all of my
women and feminist men friends and everyone else I could think of via
snail mail as well... I can monitor my own messages and what I look
at on the Web, I don't need my government f*****g with my communications
and tell what I can and cannot write about here.

Thanks for forwarding this.

Very pissed off about this...

Jet
_________________________________________________________________

I object to the U.S. government's prohibition of any discussion of
abortion on the internet.

1. Elizabeth Katz, student, Vassar College
2. Julienne Silverman, Vassar College
3. Joanna Kalb, Cornell University
4. Lucinda Schutzman, Shoreham-Wading River High School
5. Jate Murnane, Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State U.
6. John Evans, Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State U.
7. Alexandra Hartman, University of Virginia
8. Sherry Edwards, Christopher Newport University
9. Moin Hussaini, JOhns Hopkins University
10. Thomas Jones, JOhns Hopkins University
11. Steven Donnally, Johns Hopkins University
12. Susanna Henighan, Oberlin College
13. Rachel Henighan, Swarthmore College
14. Katie Klingehsmith, Swarthmore College
15. Chris Flood, Swarthmore College
16. Toki REhder, Swarthmore College
17. Halsey Varady, Yale University
18. Peter Foonster Morris, Yale University
19. Stephanie Morris, Brown University
20. Lev Osherovich, University of Colorado, Boulder
21. Owen Vajk, Reed College
22. Fiona Vajk, University of Colorado, Boulder
23. Peter Bloser, Harvard University
24. Elana Messer, Harvard University
25. Atissa Banuazizi, Harvard University
26. Kathleen Sterling, Harvard University
27. Nicole Jampol, New York University Medical School
28. Ben Hamar, New York University Medical School
29. Holly Parker, Dartmouth College
30. Hannah Mertaugh, Dartmouth College
31. Sandra Maruszak, Dartmouth College
32. Susan Cobb, Sales Manager, Inner Traditions Int'l
33. Cheryl McEaney, Rykodisc/Salem MA
34. Leo Wetherill, ThoughtPort Authority Inc., Columbia MO
35. Richard Fish, Bloomington IN
36. Mike Kelleher, Bloomington IN
37. Diane Kelleher, Palo Alto, CA
38. Allison Hamilton, Washington, DC
39. Kim Mondelli, Corvallis, OR
40. Marilyn Clement, Women's International League for Peace and
Freedom, Phila, PA
41. Deborah Zubow, Phila, PA
42. Kathleen O'Donnell, Phila PA
43. Laura Goodwin, Hartford, CT 44. Jet Tenley, Seattle, WA

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 16:04:35 -0400
From: cuffs@shore.net
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: (SBA) Report
Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960605200435.0067e7f8@shell1.shore.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Thought the group might be interested in a report just published by the
Small Business Administration. Women owned small business are growing at a
rate 35% faster then those owned by man. The report goes on to say, by the
year 2000 more then 50% of all small businesses will be owned by women. I
guess all males had better brush up on our domestic skills.

cuffs

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 13:20:46 -0700
From: Jet
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Pro-choice internet action
Message-ID: <31B5EC1E.2957@nwlink.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

David--

I can understand why US citizens might feel at risk.

Although sending a copy of the list with my name on it to the president puts me
at risk, I still choose to do this... I have to right to vote... I have the
right of free speech... I have a right to stand up for what I believe it and I
choose do that right now.

I despise the way the religious right is trying to force their beliefs on many
who choose/have the right to believe what they want.

I don't usually swear as a general rule,
but when people try to dictate what I say, what I should believe, who I should listen
to and what I should watch or what I should/have to do...I get very angry and this
sets me off in a way that most other things do not. In trying to get their 'rights'
or beliefs enforced, they are trampling everyone elses' rights.

I don't know if I'm making sense right now, I have a very bad case of the flu (coming
and going) and am running a bit of fever, but I cannot believe that a president in
the USA would start chipping away at our rights. It's indecent! It's
unconstitutional. It makes me so angry that I could swear some more.

I am fortunate in
living in a country which does still have free speech. I don't think US
officers can arrest me here. I think the point of civil resistence is that
if enough people resist the goverment becomes embarrased by it's inability
to arrest and imprison them all. I think US citizens should examine their
position and plunge in and take the risk where they can. Of course this is
easy for me to say living at a safe distance.

I thought I did live in country that had free speech...that is what makes me so
upset! That's exactly what I'm doing, David.

But if you value what is left of your free speech, you have little choice.

You are absolutely right...why do we vote if not for free choice.

I have appended my name to the petition and mailed it to
president@whitehouse.gov.

David, we appreciate this very much.

I have on this occasion reverted to using my own surname rather than signing
in my married name, as I feel that it might look better with two different
names. I am sure Christine will append her name and mail it to the president
on her return from England.

Wonderful...the more the 'merrier.'

I have also E-mailed the following letter to the president with the Subject
line
America worse than Iran! If anyone cares to supply a mailing list I'll be
happy to mail copies of it to other political leaders in the US.

David Stevenson (nee Harley).

A terrific letter it is, David... If someone from outside the USA can make
the president feel some sort of shame, etc., maybe that will help keep this
from happening any more than it already has, or even reverse the decision.

Dear Mr. President,

As a British Citizen I have always admired the United States Constitution
and political system.

UNTIL NOW!

I understand that you have signed into law on February 8, 1996, a
telecommunications bill that has made it illegal
to discuss abortion anywhere on the internet. This includes
e-mails of any kind. I believe you are in gross violation of the US
Constitution.

Thank you, David...

Jet

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 13:38:14 -0700
From: Jet
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: (SBA) Report
Message-ID: <31B5F036.7610@nwlink.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

cuffs@shore.net wrote:

Thought the group might be interested in a report just published by the
Small Business Administration. Women owned small business are growing at a
rate 35% faster then those owned by man. The report goes on to say, by the
year 2000 more then 50% of all small businesses will be owned by women. I
guess all males had better brush up on our domestic skills.

cuffs


Thanks for the information, cuffs. I am one of those 35%. It is very good
to know that women-owned businesses are growing at such a fast rate.

Lady Jet

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 16:30:27 -0400
From: willow
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: (SBA) Report
Message-ID: <31B5EE63.103B23B9@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

cuffs wrote:

cuffs@shore.net wrote:

Thought the group might be interested in a report just published by the
Small Business Administration. Women owned small business are growing at a
rate 35% faster then those owned by man. The report goes on to say, by the
year 2000 more then 50% of all small businesses will be owned by women. I
guess all males had better brush up on our domestic skills.

cuffs


Domestic skills? Can't I just move my computer down to the dungeon and
hack from there? :(

Semper Servis,
Willow

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 13:48:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: (SBA) Report
Message-Id: <199606052048.NAA12690@netcom17.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 2257

cuff wrote

Thought the group might be interested in a report just published by the
Small Business Administration. Women owned small business are growing at a
rate 35% faster then those owned by man. The report goes on to say, by the
year 2000 more then 50% of all small businesses will be owned by women. I
guess all males had better brush up on our domestic skills.


to which I add (perhaps from the same source):

Woman owned businesses employed 18.5 employees in the last year,
26% of the US labor force.
This is a figure that has tripled in a decade.
There are now 8 million woman-owned businesses in the US.

This is why all but 1 of my clients and most of my suppliers,
vendors, co-contractors (I can't exactly call them 'subcontractors,'
can I? :] ) are women. Ditto all the professionals in my
life except my MD. Even the executrix of my estate and the holder
of my living will is a woman. The goal is a 100% female-only business
connection as soon as possible.

Opportunity for activism: Right now we are defending free speech
on the Internet, but here's another 'slippery slope:' The Gingrich
Congress is trying to gut the Commerce department and especially the
SBA. This is a principal resource and clearinghouse for Women-owned
businesses, and ending the SBA would cripple the efforts of many
Women to achieve economic self-suffiency.

Please use Patricia's web site to stay informed, and when you
can, write.

(For non-US readers -about half of us now?- the SBA -Small Business
Administration is a US government agency whose mission is to
promote and assist small, female and minority enterprises of all
sorts. Like any agency, it is not always perfect, but it does do
good work.)

Pro-choice and free to discuss abortion wherever I choose, I remain
--
coyote sings / man and sky / amfas@netcom.com

Show up. Lighten up. Pay attention. Feel awe. Make it count.
The rest is hidden.

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 16:45:13 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Pro-choice internet action
Message-ID: <31B61C09.3A2C@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I would like to take a moment in the heat of this argument to note: this
is not really a battle between the religious right and "us". the poweres
that be have framed it that way..to keep us "hot" and "emotional" on the
issue. The real issue is controlling the internet. The real battle is
about how to make the internet a Utility..like radio, t.v. and phones.
this is a battle for two or three giants to own the right to sell us
access to using this medium. The only regulation this is really about is
about the regulation of who owns access to the internet. The rest,
pronography, terrorists all the rest is a ploy to keep us so busy
fighting that .. that we do not see the big boys positioning to take
control.
How do you think AT&T feels about the fact that my friend from Indonesia
when he calls me on the phone and talks for sometime ends up paying a
bill for $86.00, yet when he spends the same time talking to me over the
internet..spends nada beyond his 19.00 a month hook up charge..this is
about losing profit and though its disquised as protecting our children
it is about profit.
patricia

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 16:47:27 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: (SBA) Report
Message-ID: <31B61C8F.68C8@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I am one also..and though I abhor being one of a crowd..in this case I am
proud to be amongst them.
patricia





Jet wrote:

cuffs@shore.net wrote:

Thought the group might be interested in a report just published by the
Small Business Administration. Women owned small business are growing at a
rate 35% faster then those owned by man. The report goes on to say, by the
year 2000 more then 50% of all small businesses will be owned by women. I
guess all males had better brush up on our domestic skills.

cuffs

Thanks for the information, cuffs. I am one of those 35%. It is very good
to know that women-owned businesses are growing at such a fast rate.

Lady Jet

___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 14:02:27 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Pro-choice internet action
Message-Id: <199606052102.OAA24926@dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com

You wrote:
this is a battle for two or three giants to own the right to sell us
access to using this medium. The only regulation this is really about
is about the regulation of who owns access to the internet. The rest,
pornography, terrorists all the rest is a ploy to keep us so busy
fighting that .. that we do not see the big boys positioning to take
control.

LOL probably true. What's an individual s'posed to do?
--
Laura Goodwin

" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."

(William Shakespeare)

the subject "help".

--------------------------------
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------------------------------

Content-Type: text/plain

femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 96

Today's Topics:
Re: Police
Control of Internet Access (was Re: Pro-choice internet action)
Fwd: Molly Ivins on Children
Re: Pro-choice internet action
Re: Pro-choice internet action
Re: Pro-choice internet action
Bad press (was Police)
Re: Pro-choice internet action
Re: (SBA) Report
Re: Harassing women on the net.
The real issue. (Was: Re: Pro-choice internet action)
Re: Police

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 09:08:00 +1200
From: Tracey
To: femsupremacy-digest@renaissoft.com (Non Receipt Notification Requested)
Subject: Re: Police
Message-ID: <8451070906061996/A00743/DALEK/11A632473300*@MHS
Content-Identifier: 11A632473300

I still think it is your type of criminal in the US. I mean, in NZ our police
do not go bolting into houses, smashing down innocent people, but our police do
not have to face people with serious drug problems, and guns are not a common
feature of a NZ household. Our police do not even carry firearms.

And police are only human as mentioned by Laura. Dealing with low-life every
single working day, and then because of the legal system, most get away with
the crime while the victim is left with nothing. So you are going to get the
one or two police who throw in the towel, crack up, or become corrupted.

Just one bad apple and we throw away the barrel. Just like lumping every man
into the potential rapist department or every woman is a potential slut.

I dislike the media. Where I work we supply policy advice to Government. I
get really annoyed with the media and how they pick one sentence or issue from
a policy and twist it around and tell the public that this policy is bad. I
have personally seen the work go into these policies and I know that the media
also has information that retaliates. No wonder everyone hates the Government.
No wonder everyone sees only the violence of police brutality. Does the media
actually have a segment in the news to inform the public of the criminals that
have been caught? Or how police get beaten up too in the line of duty? It's
funny how the general public only want to know and read about the bad in
society.

Tracey

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 14:13:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Control of Internet Access (was Re: Pro-choice internet action)
Message-Id: <199606052113.OAA01100@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1703

Noble wrote:

How do you think AT&T feels about the fact that my friend from Indonesia
when he calls me on the phone and talks for sometime ends up paying a
bill for $86.00, yet when he spends the same time talking to me over the
internet..spends nada beyond his 19.00 a month hook up charge..this is
about losing profit and though its disquised as protecting our children
it is about profit.

I'm starting an Internet provider in Vancouver, Canada. A huge
problem is that Internet providers have to get the phone lines their
users dial into from the phone company that has the monopoly in our
area. And, the phone companies are now providing Internet access as
well. So, they are slow in adding lines, and not too flexible in
helping a provider find the best solution for their particular needs.

However, the CRTC (Canadian Radio and Television regulating group)
which is like the FCC in the US and regulates such things like phone
rates and cable company problems and what each company can do in the
other's business has stepped in. It's been determined that it's time
for the local phone monopolies to be broken. Not only does this help
Internet providers, but it really helps everyone, since BCTel (the
local monopoly) charges insane amounts for service and nickels and
dimes ya to death. I think $97 Canadian an hour is a wee bit much to
have someone come in and install or remove a line.

Dee-Ann

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 14:19:47 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Fwd: Molly Ivins on Children
Message-Id: <199606052119.OAA22549@dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com

From: Bob Witanek
Newsgroups: misc.activism.progressive
Subject: Molly Ivins on Children


It'll take more than marches to save this generation of kids

If all of us who care had the time and money to have gotten to
Washington on Saturday for Stand for Children, it would have been
quite a gathering -- probably sinking the city back into the tidal
muck.

What's pitiful is that such a march was even necessary. The poll
numbers are overwhelming: According to a CNN-Time poll, 73 percent
of us would like to see more of our tax dollars spent on children.
But we're spending less, courtesy of the Republican revolution. The
most vogue political scheme of the day is welfare reform, which in
its last form from Newt's Congress would have put another 1 million
children into poverty and taken away the already inadequate social
safety net they now have.

Of all the statistics about children floating around last week, the
most horrifying was that the percentage of children who live in
``extreme poverty'' (defined as a family income of less than half
the official poverty level) has doubled since 1975. It's now 10
percent. And one out of every five children in this country is
growing up in plain poverty. According to Time magazine, in 1992,
there were 850,000 substantiated cases of child abuse or neglect.
Those are the kids who need our help, and on whom the country's
future depends.

It's not a question of not knowing what to do. All the evidence is
that the earlier we put money into helping a child, the bigger the
payoff. Starting with prenatal care and well-infant nutrition
programs, day care, Head Start and good schools, the more we spend
early, the more we save later. Creating the best schools on the
planet would cost us less than building the prisons we're going to
need if we don't save these children. The issue is perfect for both
bleeding hearts and budget-choppers, but we still let the problems
grow worse.

The Republican brethren are right when they say the whole answer is
not in government programs. Supporting programs that help kids is
critical, but it's like saying, ``I gave at the office.'' Getting
involved in Big Brother/Big Sister programs, tutoring,
adopt-a-school, recreation, music, arts and crafts programs -- a
zillion places need volunteers.

It is both dumb and wicked to pretend that volunteerism alone can
solve any of these problems. Americans would have to give 50 times
more by the year 2000 to replace government social services. It
won't happen.

Of course we need welfare reform. Any idiot could design a better
welfare system than the one we have -- all it takes is more money.
What we need to get people off welfare and into jobs is (a) jobs,
(b) job training, (c) universal health insurance, (d) day care and
(e) transportation. Where to get the money? We could start with the
$12 billion Congress gave the Pentagon that the Pentagon didn't ask
for to build weapons the Pentagon doesn't need and can't use.
While we're hearing election-year rhetoric about what a disaster the
schools are, the schools are actually getting better -- slowly and
unevenly, of course. The maddening thing about education is that
someone somewhere has already solved whatever problem we're talking
about. You can find wonderful examples all over the country of
schools that work. The problem is how to replicate success
throughout the system.

We might do well to take a page from business here. When something
isn't working in business -- say, a division is losing money -- the
company usually solves it by taking a manager from a successful
division and putting that person in charge of the one that doesn't
work. Why not get the people responsible for successful schools
together and let them design a better system?

And don't let anyone tell you it won't cost more money. For all the
endless blather about how much money we spend on our schools and how
it hasn't done any good, far too many schools are literally falling
apart: leaky roofs, broken windows, broken stairs, busted toilets,
roaches in the cafeteria, bad lighting . . . Many problems can be
solved by putting money into them.

Marian Wright Edelman's Children's Defense Fund, leading lobby for
children, has an annual budget of $13 million, compared to $66
million for the National Rifle Association and $300 million for the
American Association of Retired Persons.
Molly Ivins is a columnist for the Fort Worth Star-Telegram.
--
Laura Goodwin

" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."

(William Shakespeare)

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 14:23:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Pro-choice internet action
Message-Id: <199606052123.OAA18607@netcom17.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1110

Laura Goodwin answered Patricia's assertion

.. that we do not see the big boys positioning to take
control.

LOL probably true. What's an individual s'posed to do?

1. Stay informed about who the 'big boys' are and what
they're up to- this may have in fact slowed down Microsoft
Network's perceived monopoly.

2. Patronize the 'Little Women,' e.g., Stacy Horn's Echo
in NYC and other Woman-owned ISPs or failing that Freenets,
or failing that, simply the smaller Mon & pop ISPs- check them
out first- You could be buying from right-wing nuts.

(I know: here I am on Netcom, but they seem at least benignly
neutral, and have been fighting the good fight on CDA, etc.
I think by 'big boys' Mts Patricia meant the 800 pound gorillas.)

Pro-choice and free to discuss abortion wherever I choose, I remain
--
c.s.

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 17:23:13 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Pro-choice internet action
Message-ID: <31B624F1.7656@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Learn all about the technology so we can get past whatever system they
try to "own"...that will be when we fight the legal battles.

its like abortion...when they were threatening to take abortion rights
away...and they still are...I saw it as our responsibility to buy
equipment and learn the skills necessary to give a safe abortion. I
believe our obligation to deliver these services if they are made illegal
again will be the legal battle.
patricia


Laura Goodwin wrote:

You wrote:
this is a battle for two or three giants to own the right to sell us
access to using this medium. The only regulation this is really about
is about the regulation of who owns access to the internet. The rest,
pornography, terrorists all the rest is a ploy to keep us so busy
fighting that .. that we do not see the big boys positioning to take
control.

LOL probably true. What's an individual s'posed to do?
--
Laura Goodwin

" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."

(William Shakespeare)

___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 15:53:51 -0700
From: Jet
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Pro-choice internet action
Message-ID: <31B60FFF.519C@nwlink.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

-Noble wrote:

I would like to take a moment in the heat of this argument to note: this
is not really a battle between the religious right and "us". the poweres
that be have framed it that way..to keep us "hot" and "emotional" on the
issue. The real issue is controlling the internet. The real battle is
about how to make the internet a Utility..like radio, t.v. and phones.
this is a battle for two or three giants to own the right to sell us
access to using this medium. The only regulation this is really about is
about the regulation of who owns access to the internet. The rest,
pronography, terrorists all the rest is a ploy to keep us so busy
fighting that .. that we do not see the big boys positioning to take
control.
How do you think AT&T feels about the fact that my friend from Indonesia
when he calls me on the phone and talks for sometime ends up paying a
bill for $86.00, yet when he spends the same time talking to me over the
internet..spends nada beyond his 19.00 a month hook up charge..this is
about losing profit and though its disquised as protecting our children
it is about profit.
patricia


Point well taken, Patricia... Unfortunately, when it comes to issues
such as abortion, the religious right is one of the many groups trying
to take that away and send us back into the dark ages of illegal
and deadly abortions. That's what really makes me angry. I have many
acquaintances that are fundamentalist christians, born-again christians,
and just plain christians that keep telling me that the internet is a
hot-bed of sin with all the "sinful" people using it to perpetuate
satan's plan... It is unfortunate that this is the forum they choose
to use right now to push for their cause (not all christians feel this
way, but it seems like a large portion are)...first it was banning
books, then it was tv/radio/music, now it's the internet... Of course,
ATT and all the other media monopolies are against anyone getting free
services, but the religious right is also part of the program here.

I apologize for soapboxing against the religious right, but I have seen
a lot of these people cause trouble for those of us who feel that the
constitution was made for all of us, not just a certain group.

Of course, we've also seen what happens with de-regulation of certain
monopolies (can we say ATT). They are afraid of losing more pieces of
their pie...

Yes, Patricia, I fumed at just one group, but sometimes it seems as fi
this group is behind a lot of what's going on... Again, my apologies
for the soapboxing... :/

Jet

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 16:13:14 -0700
From: Jet
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Bad press (was Police)
Message-ID: <31B6148A.7B86@nwlink.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Tracey--

No wonder everyone sees only the violence of police brutality. Does the media
actually have a segment in the news to inform the public of the criminals that
have been caught? Or how police get beaten up too in the line of duty? It's
funny how the general public only want to know and read about the bad in
society.

Tracey

People need someone to hate...the government (or religious right or whomever
someone chooses) is just handy and is very visible.

The same with policemen... The problem is: bad news sells papers,
good news does not. It's rather like seeing an accident and the
morbidly curious are right there looking over the paramedics shoulders.
Tragedy draws people...morbidness attracts them like flies. People feel
they have the right to know, that's why shows such as Hardcopy and
magazines such as People thrive...

Remember the Hugh Grant thing---
How many people frequent prostitutes in this world? Because this
Hugh Grant happened to be famous and had a famous girlfriend,
he was splattered all over the papers including close-ups of
his girlfriend's angry/tear-stained face, not to mention the
prostitute (who is now famous). In this case, it wasn't just the
Hardcopy genre that got involved. It was all over the evening
news, in the newspapers, and every one had to get their 2 cents in.
Talk about a waste of bandwidth.

It was so nice of cuff and Coyote to bring up some wonderful news like
women-owned businesses are growing... It was a welcome relief. Of course,
this news is usually in the guess what sections of the magazines and in
the little columns of the newspapers (maybe 2-3 column inches worth of
space). It would be wonderful for all the good news to take up the head-
lines in the papers, and the bad news the 2-3 column inches...

For what it's worth...

Jet

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 19:05:37 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Pro-choice internet action
Message-ID: <31B63CF1.347A@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

You are not soapboxing and never any need to apologize for contributing
to dialogue.
patricia


Jet wrote:

-Noble wrote:

I would like to take a moment in the heat of this argument to note: this
is not really a battle between the religious right and "us". the poweres
that be have framed it that way..to keep us "hot" and "emotional" on the
issue. The real issue is controlling the internet. The real battle is
about how to make the internet a Utility..like radio, t.v. and phones.
this is a battle for two or three giants to own the right to sell us
access to using this medium. The only regulation this is really about is
about the regulation of who owns access to the internet. The rest,
pronography, terrorists all the rest is a ploy to keep us so busy
fighting that .. that we do not see the big boys positioning to take
control.
How do you think AT&T feels about the fact that my friend from Indonesia
when he calls me on the phone and talks for sometime ends up paying a
bill for $86.00, yet when he spends the same time talking to me over the
internet..spends nada beyond his 19.00 a month hook up charge..this is
about losing profit and though its disquised as protecting our children
it is about profit.
patricia


Point well taken, Patricia... Unfortunately, when it comes to issues
such as abortion, the religious right is one of the many groups trying
to take that away and send us back into the dark ages of illegal
and deadly abortions. That's what really makes me angry. I have many
acquaintances that are fundamentalist christians, born-again christians,
and just plain christians that keep telling me that the internet is a
hot-bed of sin with all the "sinful" people using it to perpetuate
satan's plan... It is unfortunate that this is the forum they choose
to use right now to push for their cause (not all christians feel this
way, but it seems like a large portion are)...first it was banning
books, then it was tv/radio/music, now it's the internet... Of course,
ATT and all the other media monopolies are against anyone getting free
services, but the religious right is also part of the program here.

I apologize for soapboxing against the religious right, but I have seen
a lot of these people cause trouble for those of us who feel that the
constitution was made for all of us, not just a certain group.

Of course, we've also seen what happens with de-regulation of certain
monopolies (can we say ATT). They are afraid of losing more pieces of
their pie...

Yes, Patricia, I fumed at just one group, but sometimes it seems as fi
this group is behind a lot of what's going on... Again, my apologies
for the soapboxing... :/

Jet

___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
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the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 06 Jun 96 00:01:41 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Re: (SBA) Report
Message-Id: <199606052351.BAA13738@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On Wed, 05 Jun 1996 16:04:35 -0400, cuffs@shore.net wrote:

rate 35% faster then those owned by man. The report goes on to say, by the
year 2000 more then 50% of all small businesses will be owned by women. I
guess all males had better brush up on our domestic skills.

If I were in a relationship with a woman owning and running her own
business, I definitely wouldn't mind running the household (cooking,
cleaning etc.) so she could devote all her time to her business. It makes
sense. If she's good at what she does, why should she waste her time doing
household chores?

Besides women have done this for men for many years. I can't see why
the opposite shouldn't be possible.

---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden
Hiroshima 45, Tjernobyl 86, Windows 95 ...

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 06 Jun 96 01:17:22 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Re: Harassing women on the net.
Message-Id: <199606052351.BAA13787@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Tue, 4 Jun 1996 11:30:07 -0700 (PDT), Chase Vogelsberg wrote:=0D=0A=0D=
=0AAhem. Men aren't. -Some- men are compelled to, or otherwise do the=
se=0D=0Astupid obnoxious tasteless things. Many others don't.=0D=0A=0D=
=0A Touch=E9 ;).=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A This kind of behavior really =
makes me feel shame on the behalf of these=0D=0A men :(.=0D=0A=0D=0A=
This is a logic I have never understood : Second-hand shame. Magnus, y=
ou=0D=0A=0D=0A My feelings don't answer to logic, I'm afraid. If they =
did, they would=0D=0Abe more of ... logic than feelings, wouldn't they?=0D=
=0A=0D=0A---=0D=0AMagnus Thelander=0D=0AMalmo, Sweden=0D=0AHiroshima 45,=
Tjernobyl 86, Windows 95 ...

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 06 Jun 96 00:48:41 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: The real issue. (Was: Re: Pro-choice internet action)
Message-Id: <199606052351.BAA13754@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On Wed, 05 Jun 1996 16:45:13 -0700, Noble wrote:

is not really a battle between the religious right and "us". the poweres
that be have framed it that way..to keep us "hot" and "emotional" on the

Do you mean the megacorporations and their lackeys? Perhaps I should
say gigacorporations, since they probably count their profits in the
billions today?

issue. The real issue is controlling the internet. The real battle is
about how to make the internet a Utility..like radio, t.v. and phones.
this is a battle for two or three giants to own the right to sell us
access to using this medium. The only regulation this is really about is
about the regulation of who owns access to the internet. The rest,
pronography, terrorists all the rest is a ploy to keep us so busy
fighting that .. that we do not see the big boys positioning to take
control.

So, what exactly are they doing under cover of the noise and smoke
stirred by the Telecommunications bill and Communication decency act? If
you know, please enlighten us.

How do you think AT&T feels about the fact that my friend from Indonesia
when he calls me on the phone and talks for sometime ends up paying a
bill for $86.00, yet when he spends the same time talking to me over the
internet..spends nada beyond his 19.00 a month hook up charge..this is

It works now because only a few people bother to do it, but if everyone
suddenly switched their international phone calls to the internet, the
internet would choke instantly. It's already crowded in some places with
slow transfer rates and long delays.

In Sweden new capacity is being installed continously to handle the
increased traffic on the internet. We have two Swedish phone companys
selling access to the internet in addition to all the usual services phone
companys offer and there are perhaps four foreign phone companys or
consortiums of phone companys operating in Sweden, and offering both
regular data communication, audio communication and internet access. I
know that the two Swedish operators are investing heavily in increased
transmission capacity including transatlantic connections, which means
that using the internet for phone calls will be more viable in the future,
even though sound quality and reliability leaves a lot to be desired
today. I don't know what the other operators are doing, but if they want
to stay competitive, I assume they're doing the same.

I don't know what the situation is in the U.S.A., but if capacity is
being added there too, the internet *is* indeed a growing threat to
regular phone calls.

The question is why do the phone companys invest huge amounts in
increased transmission capacity dedicated to the internet, if they at the
same time are losing control over the lucrative market for international
phone calls? They could just sit back and watch the internet choke itself
to death, if they wanted to.

This isn't the first time I've come across this interpretation of the
recent activities. I don't remember where I read it first. It may have
been in Hotwired.

---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden
Hiroshima 45, Tjernobyl 86, Windows 95 ...

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 20:49:23 -0500
From: kriv@interlog.com (peter)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Police
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Tracey wrote:

I dislike the media. Where I work we supply policy advice to Government. I
get really annoyed with the media and how they pick one sentence or issue from
a policy and twist it around and tell the public that this policy is bad. I
have personally seen the work go into these policies and I know that the media
also has information that retaliates. No wonder everyone hates the Government.
No wonder everyone sees only the violence of police brutality. Does the media
actually have a segment in the news to inform the public of the criminals that
have been caught? Or how police get beaten up too in the line of duty? It's
funny how the general public only want to know and read about the bad in
society.

As someone who works in the media, I take exception to this statement.
Perhaps you dislike the media because they see the situation in a different
light than what you have advised the government? Is what you advised the
government good for the people or good for the government?
Should we take everything the government says or does as the gospel truth?
I don't know what newspapers you read, but the one I work for is full of
stories about criminals getting caught, police getting beat up, and also
police going out of their way to help others.
Peter



the subject "help".

--------------------------------
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------------------------------

Content-Type: text/plain

femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 97

Today's Topics:
Re: Policeforce.
Media. (Was: Re: Police)
Media. (Was: Re: Police)
I dislike the Media!
Re: Media. (Was: Re: Police)
Re: I dislike the Media!
Re: Media. (Was: Re: Police)
Police
Unsubscribe
From a.w.s.: More Web Sites for Women
Re: Pro-choice internet action
Thank Goddess It's Freyasdag (Friday)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 06 Jun 96 01:50:49 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Re: Policeforce.
Message-Id: <199606052352.BAA13791@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On Tue, 4 Jun 1996 10:46:21 -0700 (PDT), Chase Vogelsberg wrote:

Heh. "Evidence" in such matters is rather hard to produce, wouldn't you
agree Magnus? It's kinda like a survey asking people if they beat their

You could watch them without them knowing about it. That would probably
generate evidence.

I haven't been a cop, myself.... But I spent 8 years in the marines, which
is in some ways quite similar. (Speaking from personal experience, and from
talking with both military and civilian police) Neither vocation tends to
draw very many pacifists, for the simple reason that neither is a career in
which one can reasonably expect to avoid violence - quite the contrary. For
individuals with aggresive, violent tendencies, _both_ provide an environment
where that aggression is, if not encouraged, then at least accepted. In fact,

Seems to me that that's the problem then. There's no doubt a need for a
certain amount of violence in a certain situation. That's acceptable. It's
not acceptable not to be able to determine when that line has been
crossed. If there is an attitude of acceptance of this, something has to
be done about that, or it will never change.

they're a few of the rare vocations where those tendencies can be harnessed
for society's benefit, even if society doesn't approve of the traits.

Does society really benifit from policeofficers suffering from Mad cop
decease (shamelessly stolen from David Letterman). I.e. policeofficers who
think they have a carte blanche to use force?

Both law enforcement and the military are somewhat isolationist, viewing
themselves apart from the civilian population, having more in common with one
another than with the general populace. They hold themselves to standards
of behavior that are in many ways much more rigorous than civilian standards,
and both tend to do most of the socializing within their own kind.

Still that's not cause for anyone to get out of control. I tend to
agree more with Trcaey. Many are probably very frustrated with the
inefficiency of the justice system in dealing with the criminality, and
while most will just grit their teeth, and continue fighting the
windmills, a few will simply break down under the pressure, and sooner or
later someone will provoke them one time too much. Unfortunately that
someone naturally isn't the succesful lawyer driving along in his $100'00
Mercedes.

wants a cop to come to their party. Too much suspicion that when they get
drunk and gossip or brag about breaking some minor law that the cop will take
official notice, too much discomfort with having an officer there when some

I really think you're exaggerating now. Everybody breaks minor laws.
Most of the time we're not even aware of it.

of the guests might just decide to start indulging in some proscribed sub-
stance and perhaps get busted. Too many kids who spit or yell profanity as

This is not breaking a minor law in my opinion. Using controlled
substances is a major crime.

feeling of belong to an elite fraternity, who to one extent or another enjoy
the nervous, respectful reactions of the crowds, and the knowledge that they

If they actually got some of this respect instead of being sworn and
spat at, they may be able to do a better job.

police kicking suspects, and why in big cities you can watch police casually
intimidating or harassing certain types of people, simply because they can.

Intimidating and harassing known criminals to a certain extent is a
part of their job. It will reduce the ability of the criminals to go about
their foul business. Isn't that what we want the police to do? Perhaps you
meant something else, when you said 'certain types of people'?

---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden
Hiroshima 45, Tjernobyl 86, Windows 95 ...

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 06 Jun 96 03:14:22 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Media. (Was: Re: Police)
Message-Id: <199606060113.DAA23537@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On Wed, 5 Jun 1996 20:49:23 -0500, peter wrote:

Tracey wrote:

I dislike the media. Where I work we supply policy advice to Government. I
get really annoyed with the media and how they pick one sentence or issue from
a policy and twist it around and tell the public that this policy is bad. I

As someone who works in the media, I take exception to this statement.
Perhaps you dislike the media because they see the situation in a different
light than what you have advised the government? Is what you advised the

First of all, I have never read the media you work for peter, so this
doesn't apply to you personally or your employer. I'm neither part of the
government nor the media either, so this more of a general observation
from a media customer.

In my opinion the media I read and watch sometimes skew the perspective
a bit too much in their quest for a sensation that will sell. It wouldn't
hurt with a little more sobriety. I prefer if they keep the facts and the
commentary separate. When they skew the perspective, they have, whether
intentionally or not, commented on the facts. The evening newspapers are
the worst, but the newsbroadcasts from the commercial TV stations are not
far behind.

Should we take everything the government says or does as the gospel truth?

Should we take everything the media says or does as the gospel truth?

---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden
Hiroshima 45, Tjernobyl 86, Windows 95 ...

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 21:25:37 -0500
From: kriv@interlog.com (peter)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Media. (Was: Re: Police)
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Tracey wrote:

I dislike the media. Where I work we supply policy advice to Government. I
get really annoyed with the media and how they pick one sentence or
issue from
a policy and twist it around and tell the public that this policy is bad. I

As someone who works in the media, I take exception to this statement.
Perhaps you dislike the media because they see the situation in a different
light than what you have advised the government? Is what you advised the

Magnus wrote:
First of all, I have never read the media you work for peter, so this
doesn't apply to you personally or your employer. I'm neither part of the
government nor the media either, so this more of a general observation
from a media customer.

In my opinion the media I read and watch sometimes skew the perspective
a bit too much in their quest for a sensation that will sell. It wouldn't
hurt with a little more sobriety. I prefer if they keep the facts and the
commentary separate. When they skew the perspective, they have, whether
intentionally or not, commented on the facts. The evening newspapers are
the worst, but the newsbroadcasts from the commercial TV stations are not
far behind.

Should we take everything the government says or does as the gospel truth?

Should we take everything the media says or does as the gospel truth?


Editors at my newspaper have a fetish for removing commentary from news
reports. Any piece with merit that deserves play in the paper has the logo
"commentary" slapped on top.

And the first thing I was taught at j-school was to get both sides of the
story. And, hey, reporters can try to be as objective as possible, but
they're only human.

And, no, you shouldn't take everything the media says as the gospel truth.
But, personally, I would believe the story from a legitimate news
organization in a free country before I would believe anything coming out
of the mouth of any politician or government flack.

Peter


the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 15:42:38 +1200
From: Tracey
To: femsupremacy-digest@renaissoft.com (Non Receipt Notification Requested)
Subject: I dislike the Media!
Message-ID: <3029421506061996/A03565/DALEK/11A633EA1C00*@MHS
Content-Identifier: 11A633EA1C00

Peter wrote:

Perhaps you dislike the media because they see the situation in a different
light than what you have advised the government?

No, I dislike the way the media is bias. I have read a particular story about
a woman who was walking her dog and a pitbull terrier supposedly attacked her
dog and also bit her in the process. It was on page 2 of the paper with a
good sized picture of her and her dog bandaged up. Oh dear, bad dogs those
pitbull terriers, should be put down, blah, blah, blah... Okay, next day, page
10 of the paper, 1 small paragraph explaining the owner of the pitbull's side
of the story. Seemed the dogs had a mutual dislike to each other and began to
fight, the two owners jumped in to stop the fight and the lady got bitten. No
picture of the damage that her dog did to the pitbull. Sheds a different light
on the situation doesn't it?

And onto the Government issue. The news tells us of the 81 year old lady who
is in a longstay hospice with a mental disease. Her 80 year old husband
refuses to pay for her hospital bills, saying the Government should pay. The
tv shows pictures of him holding hands with this incoherent woman, who
obviously isn't aware of anything. A terrible picture. Bloody Government.
But, on the other hand what isn't told by the news is that this guy can afford
to pay the bills. Our pensioners are asset tested and don't have to pay for
anything and get full benefits if their personal wealth (not including house
and capital) is more than $45,000 (ie, hard cash in bank). The reason why the
Government was asking this man to pay for his wife was because they could
afford it.

I have also heard from the media that some people will still be paying off
their student loans when they are in their 40s. Another sensational headline.
And again, the media doesn't mention that the reason why these people will be
paying for such a long time is because they are only paying such a minimal
amount, like $5/week.

I see this sort of stuff time and time again. If they are going to run a
story, they should run the full story.

Tracey

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 23:05:50 -0500 (CDT)
From: Ronald Forster
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
cc: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Media. (Was: Re: Police)
Message-ID:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I once was interviewed by the PBS "News Hour". They filmed for three
hours ( not just me but others) and were given tons of background stats.
When the piece ran one minute of the fourteen minute piece presented my
side of the story. The rest presented the "other side" and included none
of "our stats". I was on the conserative side of the issue.

My point is that, Yes the media can be very one sided.

On Wed, 5 Jun 1996, peter wrote:


Tracey wrote:

I dislike the media. Where I work we supply policy advice to Government. I
get really annoyed with the media and how they pick one sentence or
issue from
a policy and twist it around and tell the public that this policy is bad. I

As someone who works in the media, I take exception to this statement.
Perhaps you dislike the media because they see the situation in a different
light than what you have advised the government? Is what you advised the

Magnus wrote:
First of all, I have never read the media you work for peter, so this
doesn't apply to you personally or your employer. I'm neither part of the
government nor the media either, so this more of a general observation
from a media customer.

In my opinion the media I read and watch sometimes skew the perspective
a bit too much in their quest for a sensation that will sell. It wouldn't
hurt with a little more sobriety. I prefer if they keep the facts and the
commentary separate. When they skew the perspective, they have, whether
intentionally or not, commented on the facts. The evening newspapers are
the worst, but the newsbroadcasts from the commercial TV stations are not
far behind.

Should we take everything the government says or does as the gospel truth?

Should we take everything the media says or does as the gospel truth?


Editors at my newspaper have a fetish for removing commentary from news
reports. Any piece with merit that deserves play in the paper has the logo
"commentary" slapped on top.

And the first thing I was taught at j-school was to get both sides of the
story. And, hey, reporters can try to be as objective as possible, but
they're only human.

And, no, you shouldn't take everything the media says as the gospel truth.
But, personally, I would believe the story from a legitimate news
organization in a free country before I would believe anything coming out
of the mouth of any politician or government flack.

Peter


___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".



the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 07:24:01 -0500
From: kriv@interlog.com (peter)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: I dislike the Media!
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

As a newspaper reporter, I can't comment fully on these because a) I
haven't read the full accounts; b) what was involved to get the story and
c) I don't know Tracey and anything of her dealings with the media.

Regardless, it could be anything from sloppy journalism to an attempt by
those involved to purposely distort the facts. In any event, I don't see
them as wilful bias on the part of the media.

So, I'll keep an open mind. I wish Tracey would do the same.
Peter



Peter wrote:

Perhaps you dislike the media because they see the situation in a different
light than what you have advised the government?

No, I dislike the way the media is bias. I have read a particular story about
a woman who was walking her dog and a pitbull terrier supposedly attacked her
dog and also bit her in the process. It was on page 2 of the paper with a
good sized picture of her and her dog bandaged up. Oh dear, bad dogs those
pitbull terriers, should be put down, blah, blah, blah... Okay, next day, page
10 of the paper, 1 small paragraph explaining the owner of the pitbull's side
of the story. Seemed the dogs had a mutual dislike to each other and began to
fight, the two owners jumped in to stop the fight and the lady got bitten. No
picture of the damage that her dog did to the pitbull. Sheds a different light
on the situation doesn't it?

And onto the Government issue. The news tells us of the 81 year old lady who
is in a longstay hospice with a mental disease. Her 80 year old husband
refuses to pay for her hospital bills, saying the Government should pay. The
tv shows pictures of him holding hands with this incoherent woman, who
obviously isn't aware of anything. A terrible picture. Bloody Government.
But, on the other hand what isn't told by the news is that this guy can afford
to pay the bills. Our pensioners are asset tested and don't have to pay for
anything and get full benefits if their personal wealth (not including house
and capital) is more than $45,000 (ie, hard cash in bank). The reason why the
Government was asking this man to pay for his wife was because they could
afford it.

I have also heard from the media that some people will still be paying off
their student loans when they are in their 40s. Another sensational headline.
And again, the media doesn't mention that the reason why these people will be
paying for such a long time is because they are only paying such a minimal
amount, like $5/week.

I see this sort of stuff time and time again. If they are going to run a
story, they should run the full story.

Tracey

___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".


the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 07:28:40 -0500
From: kriv@interlog.com (peter)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Media. (Was: Re: Police)
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I'm not going to endlessly defend other's examples of bias in the media.
Obviously, I agree there is bias. But I don't think it's as bad as others,
who have been perhaps burned, point out.

It reminds me of the time I interviewed the editor of a student newspaper.
I asked him if he considered his paper just as factual and objective as the
mainstream press.

He replied: "We print all the facts. We just use different facts."

Peter

I once was interviewed by the PBS "News Hour". They filmed for three
hours ( not just me but others) and were given tons of background stats.
When the piece ran one minute of the fourteen minute piece presented my
side of the story. The rest presented the "other side" and included none
of "our stats". I was on the conserative side of the issue.

My point is that, Yes the media can be very one sided.

On Wed, 5 Jun 1996, peter wrote:


Tracey wrote:

I dislike the media. Where I work we supply policy advice to
Government. I
get really annoyed with the media and how they pick one sentence or
issue from
a policy and twist it around and tell the public that this policy is
bad. I

As someone who works in the media, I take exception to this statement.
Perhaps you dislike the media because they see the situation in a different
light than what you have advised the government? Is what you advised the

Magnus wrote:
First of all, I have never read the media you work for peter, so this
doesn't apply to you personally or your employer. I'm neither part of the
government nor the media either, so this more of a general observation
from a media customer.

In my opinion the media I read and watch sometimes skew the perspective
a bit too much in their quest for a sensation that will sell. It wouldn't
hurt with a little more sobriety. I prefer if they keep the facts and the
commentary separate. When they skew the perspective, they have, whether
intentionally or not, commented on the facts. The evening newspapers are
the worst, but the newsbroadcasts from the commercial TV stations are not
far behind.

Should we take everything the government says or does as the gospel truth?

Should we take everything the media says or does as the gospel truth?


Editors at my newspaper have a fetish for removing commentary from news
reports. Any piece with merit that deserves play in the paper has the logo
"commentary" slapped on top.

And the first thing I was taught at j-school was to get both sides of the
story. And, hey, reporters can try to be as objective as possible, but
they're only human.

And, no, you shouldn't take everything the media says as the gospel truth.
But, personally, I would believe the story from a legitimate news
organization in a free country before I would believe anything coming out
of the mouth of any politician or government flack.

Peter


___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".



___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".


the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 07:49:09 CDT
From: bodie167@houston.email.net
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Police
Message-Id: <9606060749.S741588459@houston.email.net

Re your post, Tracy, I agree with the following that it is dangerous to lump
all police in the same barrel:
<<Just one bad apple and we throw away the barrel. Just like lumping
every man
into the potential rapist department or every woman is a potential slut.
-- OR just like lumping all blacks as criminals, or latinos as
lazy or asians as being good at math, or jews being good business
people with bad business practices. It is bias in EVERY case and
doesn't stand the light of day. Down with all such biases!
bodie

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 08:25:01 +0000
From: Mike Kelley
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Unsubscribe
Message-ID: <31B695DD.7D05@accutek.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Thanks (I'll miss the discussion, but haven't got
the time anymore).

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 11:51:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com (Female Supremacy List)
Subject: From a.w.s.: More Web Sites for Women
Message-Id: <199606061851.LAA17831@netcom8.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 675

Found on alt.women.supremacy:

From: peechi@bitteford.com (peechi)
Newsgroups: alt.women.supremacy
Subject: Web sites for Women
Date: 6 Jun 1996 12:53:15 GMT

Here are some more websites designed especailly for Women.

http://www.ion.com.au/yoni/yonititle.html (my favorite)

http://www.pleiades-net.com/

http://www.csulb.edu/~persepha/DarkGoddess.html

http://www.maine.com/reality/epiph.html

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 22:28:42 -0400
From: mark
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Pro-choice internet action
Message-Id: <199606070228.WAA03027@recom.recom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 04:45 PM 6/5/96 -0700, you wrote:
I would like to take a moment in the heat of this argument to note: this
is not really a battle between the religious right and "us". the poweres
that be have framed it that way..to keep us "hot" and "emotional" on the
issue. The real issue is controlling the internet. The real battle is
about how to make the internet a Utility..like radio, t.v. and phones.
this is a battle for two or three giants to own the right to sell us
access to using this medium. The only regulation this is really about is
about the regulation of who owns access to the internet. The rest,
pronography, terrorists all the rest is a ploy to keep us so busy
fighting that .. that we do not see the big boys positioning to take
control.
How do you think AT&T feels about the fact that my friend from Indonesia
when he calls me on the phone and talks for sometime ends up paying a
bill for $86.00, yet when he spends the same time talking to me over the
internet..spends nada beyond his 19.00 a month hook up charge..this is
about losing profit and though its disquised as protecting our children
it is about profit.
patricia

Very astute Ms. Patricia..... Did you ever notice when you read an
artical against the internet, it is about "child porn" or other mis-uses of
the internet. As to say "You don't want to controll the internet?, then you
must advocate child pornography"......
___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".




the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 12:05:16 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: daversub@aol.com
To: oakgrove@ix.netcom.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
To: duane@crl.com
To: lbw1femdom@aol.com
To: mcguire@ccsua.ctstateu.edu
To: whimsygirl@aol.com
To: 71673.2733@compuserve.com
To: 74260.1221@compuserve.com
To: marshamam@aol.com
To: mrdibbs@aol.com
To: imaax@aol.com
To: glynnrich@aol.com
To: brandrog@netcom.com
To: yabh33c@prodigy.com
Subject: Thank Goddess It's Freyasdag (Friday)
Message-Id: <199606071905.MAA11372@dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com

If Sunday is named for the sun, and Monday is named for the moon, what
is Friday named after?

Freya or Frigga, the Goddess of Life and Love! Freya, the great Mother
Goddess of Northern Europe. Since the Goddess was a Goddess of *all*
kinds of love, including sexual love, Frigg and frigging became
colloquialisms for sexual activity.

Friday was once the Goddess's sacred day, which is why it's the day
people eat fish as a fertility charm! The fish was a symbol of the
Goddess long before Christianity came along. Friday the 13th is
considered "unlucky" by churchmen because it combines Her sacred day
with a number commonly associated with the Goddess, 13. Why 13?
Because there are 13 full moons in a year.

Friday used to be the 7th day of the week. It was the sabbath of the
Jewish Lunar calendar, and is still the sabbath of Islam. Many people
still believe that Friday is the most lucky day for a wedding.

FYI, the other days of the week:
Saturday = Saturn's day <--Roman influence.
Tuesday = Tiw's day <---The forgotton god, also called Tyr. A
Mars-like Aryan God.
Wednesday = Woden or Odin's day (Wodensdag)
Thursday - Thor's day (Thorsdag) ( I assume you have *heard* of Thor)

"I love those who love me, and they who seek me earnestly shall find
me." (Proverbs 8:17)




--
Laura Goodwin

" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."

(William Shakespeare)

the subject "help".

--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #97
***********************************************

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------------------------------

Content-Type: text/plain

femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 98

Today's Topics:
Re: Thank Goddess It's Freyasdag (Friday)
Submissions(?!) to House of Lords UK
Abortion/Free Speech/CDA
Technical Support Job (fwd)
Tantric Instructional items
Manual
Fwd: FW: Virus alert
Re: Manual
Re: Manual
Re: Fwd: FW: Virus alert

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 15:40:06 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Thank Goddess It's Freyasdag (Friday)
Message-ID: <31B8AFC6.39BD@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

You don't know how much I needed some cheering up this Freyasdag...thanks
for giving me a smile this afternoon
patricia


Laura Goodwin wrote:

If Sunday is named for the sun, and Monday is named for the moon, what
is Friday named after?

Freya or Frigga, the Goddess of Life and Love! Freya, the great Mother
Goddess of Northern Europe. Since the Goddess was a Goddess of *all*
kinds of love, including sexual love, Frigg and frigging became
colloquialisms for sexual activity.

Friday was once the Goddess's sacred day, which is why it's the day
people eat fish as a fertility charm! The fish was a symbol of the
Goddess long before Christianity came along. Friday the 13th is
considered "unlucky" by churchmen because it combines Her sacred day
with a number commonly associated with the Goddess, 13. Why 13?
Because there are 13 full moons in a year.

Friday used to be the 7th day of the week. It was the sabbath of the
Jewish Lunar calendar, and is still the sabbath of Islam. Many people
still believe that Friday is the most lucky day for a wedding.

FYI, the other days of the week:
Saturday = Saturn's day <--Roman influence.
Tuesday = Tiw's day <---The forgotton god, also called Tyr. A
Mars-like Aryan God.
Wednesday = Woden or Odin's day (Wodensdag)
Thursday - Thor's day (Thorsdag) ( I assume you have *heard* of Thor)

"I love those who love me, and they who seek me earnestly shall find
me." (Proverbs 8:17)

--
Laura Goodwin

" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."

(William Shakespeare)

___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 01:40:37 +0000
From: Christine & David Stevenson
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Submissions(?!) to House of Lords UK
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960608014037.007c3d64@mail.telepac.pt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Patricia wrote and mark replied:
The only regulation this is really about is
about the regulation of who owns access to the internet. The rest,
pronography, terrorists all the rest is a ploy to keep us so busy
fighting that .. that we do not see the big boys positioning to take
control.
patricia

Very astute Ms. Patricia..... Did you ever notice when you read an
artical against the internet, it is about "child porn" or other mis-uses of
the internet. As to say "You don't want to controll the internet?, then you
must advocate child pornography"......

David writes.......

Christine is home (yippee. Did you wonder why I'd gone quiet? Or was I not
missed?)

Seriously, Christine bought a copy of PCPro Magazine in the UK and guess
what I read in the readers letter columns......

The Plot Thickens.

I was happily reading your article 'No To Net Curbs' in which you quoted
Microsoft UK's very sensible presentation to the House of Lords on it's
vision of Government Internet control. So why were alarm bells rining?

Let's have another look at that 'vision': "Moderated on line services
provide a sense of community and help maintain standards," it claims. Whose
standards? I now hear the Microsfot anthem, with 1,000 Internet users
humming along.

"We need to devise a way in which we are liable, but within realistic
constraints," the company argues. Ahh - liable enough to force Microsoft
standards on us all, but not liable enough to be sued if anything goes wrong.

This is the Microsoft we know and love. I can see it now, back at MSN HQ.
Techie: 'Okay, so MSN's a dead duck becasue all users want proper Internet
access.'

Bill Gates: 'Nah, we just scare the pants of MP's about how full of sex and
violence the other Internet providers are, and how much better it would be
with us running it.'

The alarm bells have stopped ringing now, and that Microsoft anthem is
really quite a catchy number. Gary Whittaker.
................................................

You might find Sarah Kidners reply for the magazine even more worrying......


In all fairness to Microsoft, it has been working with other industry
members such as Compuserve to lobby government.

The general feeling in the industry (even from Microsoft) seems to be that
regulating the Internet is a job for everyone - industry, government and
parents. I hope your suspicions are wrong, perhaps this time the Microsoft
anthem is one of collaboration to reach the best solution for all concrned.
....................................................

So. Best for all concerned? Which all would that be. Compuserve and Microsoft?

It looks like Patricia hit the nail on the head to me!

David Stevenson.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
: Christine & David Stevenson : Authors of the best selling manuals. :
: Largo Do Sandre 8 : 'Prickteasing.' :
: 2500 Caldas da Rainha : 'Fem Dom Manual pt. 1 & 2.' :
: Portugal : 'Games People Play' :
: : :
: Tel/Fax +351-62-23891 : Erotic fiction list available. :
: : :
: Email. : New!! 'FEM-DOM TRAINING PROGRAM' :
: cstevenson@mail.telepac.pt : runs on all IBM PC's. Advises on how :
: : best to train your husband/slave. :
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------




the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 01:40:28 +0000
From: Christine & David Stevenson
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Abortion/Free Speech/CDA
Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960608014028.00a3483c@mail.telepac.pt
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I have subscribed to a list discussing the CDA (Communications Decency Act)
and what we can all do about it.

I will not send the next issue as I figure if anyone wants to read more on
the CDA they can subscribe to this list themselves. Just send an Email to
majordomo@wired.com

with the following command
in the body of your email message:

subscribe cda-bulletin

But here is the first bulletin I received.........

David Stevenson.

Return-Path: cda-bulletin-owner@hardly.hotwired.com
X-Sender: protest@wired.com
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 14:03:16 -0700
To: telstar@wired.com
From: telstar@wired.com (--Todd Lappin--)
Subject: PROTEST: CDA Decision Icon Campaign
Sender: owner-cda-bulletin-list@hotwired.com
Content-Length: 9160


tick.. tock... tick... tock.. tick... tock......

Still no word from Philadelphia on the CDA decision, but I'm optimistic
that we'll have one soon.

In the meantime, VTW and CDT have joined forces to launch a new Web
campaign designed to help spread the word about the CDA decision from the
moment it is announced.

The campaign invites Web site owners to add an animated icon link to their
Web pages, signifying that a decision in the case is expected soon. By
clicking on that image, visitors to your page will be able to jump to a
site containing the latest news and information on the case.

And check this out... As soon as a decision is announced, the image will be
changed *automatically* so that Netizens all over the Internet will
immediately be aware of the result (win or lose). By clicking on the
updated image, visitors to your page will be able to obtain the text of the
decision, analysis, and other relevant information.

Pretty spiffy. As of 4 PM ET, 2000 Web sites have already signed up to
join the campaign. You can see the icon in action at the following Web
sites:

Rep. Rick White: http://www.house.gov/white/
Surfwatch: http://www.surfwatch.com

And if you have a Web site, please consider adding the icon to your site.
Full details on how to participate follow below.

Work the network!

--Todd Lappin--
Section Editor
WIRED Magazine

==================================

__ _________ __ __ ____ ____ _____
\ \ / /_ _\ \ / / / / / ___| _ \_ _| Raise the roof
\ \ / / | | \ \ /\ / / / / | | | | | || | for the Court's
\ V / | | \ V V / / / | |___| |_| || | decision on net
\_/ |_| \_/\_/ /_/ \____|____/ |_| free speech!
Voters Telecommunications Watch / Center for Democracy and Technology

JOIN TENS OF THOUSANDS OF NET USERS IN SPREADING THE WORD
ABOUT THE FIRST RESULT OF THE FREE SPEECH LAWSUIT

June 5, 1996

Redistribute (intact, please) only until June 28, 1996
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Table of contents
News - A decision in the court case is near
How to participate
How will this campaign work?
Press information on this event
Background: what is the CDA?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
NEWS - A DECISION IN THE COURT CASE IS NEAR

The fate of the Internet and the future of the First Amendment in the
information age hang in the balance. As early as this week, three federal
judges in Philadelphia are poised to issue a ruling in the law suit
challenging the Communications Decency Act (CDA), which restricts
constitutionally protected speech on the Internet.

Will the court rule that the CDA is unconstitutional? That the Internet is
a unique communications technology that deserves the same First Amendment
protections enjoyed by the print media? Or will the court side with Senator
Exon, conservative "pro-family" groups, and the Justice Department who have
argued that the government is the best judge of what material is
appropriate online.

Regardless of the outcome, the decision will have a profound impact on the
future of the Internet as a medium for free expression, education, and
commerce.

JOIN TENS OF THOUSANDS OF YOUR FELLOW NETIZENS IN ANNOUNCING THE DECISION

When the Communications Decency Act was signed into law by President
Clinton on February 8, 1996, the World Wide Web went black in protest.
When the decision in the historic legal challenge to the CDA is announced,
join tens of thousands of your fellow netizens in spreading the word on the
decision and its impact.

This campaign follows in the steps of the Turn the Web Black campaign,
which was a tremendous success. Believe it or not, many Internet users
had only superficial knowledge about the proposed law and the enormous
press coverage and online awareness afterwards mobilized large numbers
of people.

In addition to the online campaign, there are currently rallies planned for
New York, press conferences from the CIEC and the ACLU, and a net campaign
to raise awareness to the decision and the effects it will have on free
speech.

The result of the first CDA decision is an extremely important milestone in
the fight for free speech online. Will the net look more like print, or
more like Saturday morning television?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
INSTRUCTIONS ON HOW TO PARTICIPATE:

In anticipation of the decision, you can help keep your fellow Netizens
informed on the latest news and participate in a dramatic demonstration
when the decision is announced.

1. Add the following link *TODAY* in a prominent location on your web site:



alt="Free speech court decision" align=top
A decision is near in the fight to overturn the Communications Decency Act.


2. To let us know you have joined us, fill out the form at
http://www.vtw.org/speech/
with your URL. A list of participating pages will be displayed.

3. Attend the online press conference with lead CIEC (Citizens Internet
Empowerment Coalition) attorney Bruce Ennis on HotWired. More details
are available on the WWW page.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
HOW WILL THIS CAMPAIGN WORK?

After you have added the link (above) to your page, an animated image
signifying that a decision in the case is expected soon will be
displayed on your site. By clicking on that image, visitors to your
page can jump to a site containing the latest news and information on
the case.

As soon as a decision is announced, the image will be changed
automatically (the update will happen at our server - you will not have to
do anything), and Netizens throughout the entire global Internet will
immediately be aware of the result (win or lose).

By clicking on the updated image, visitors to your page will be able
to obtain the text of the decision, analysis, and other relevant
information.

Until the decision is announced, there will be information about upcoming
events and rallies on the VTW Free Speech page, http://www.vtw.org/speech/

------------------------------------------------------------------------
PRESS INFORMATION ON THIS EVENT

For more information on this event, including press inquiries, please
contact:

Jonah Seiger, Policy Analyst, Center For Democracy and Technology (CDT)


Shabbir Safdar, Online Representative, Voters Telecommunications Watch (VTW)


------------------------------------------------------------------------
BACKGROUND: WHAT IS THE CDA?

The Communications Decency Act was passed as part of the Telecommunications
Reform bill in February 1996. The law seeks to protect minors from
objectionable or sexually explicit material on the Internet by imposing
stiff criminal penalties on the "display" of "indecent" or "patently
offensive" material online.

Opponents to the new law argue that while well intentioned, the CDA fails
to account for the unique nature of the Internet, and that it will have a
far-reaching chilling effect on constitutionally protected speech online.
On a global, decentralized communications medium like the Internet, the
only effective and constitutional means of controlling access to
objectionable material is to rely on users and parents, not the government,
to decide what material is or is not appropriate.

Two lawsuits have been filed to challenge the constitutionality of the CDA
in a Philadelphia federal court. The cases have been consolidated and an
decision is expected in early June 1996.

The cases have been brought, respectively, by The Citizens Internet
Empowerment Coalition (CIEC), comprised of civil Liberties groups,
libraries, Internet Service Providers, Commercial Online Service Providers,
Newspaper, Magazine and Book Publishers, and over 45,000 individual
internet users, and a coalition of civil liberties groups, authors, and
others organized by the ACLU.

Detailed information on the legal challenges, as well as information about
the CDA, is available at the following web sites:

Legal Challenges To The CDA
----------------------------

* The ACLU - http://www.aclu.org/

* The Citizens Internet
Empowerment Coalition (CIEC) - http://www.cdt.org/ciec

Background Information On The CDA/Internet Censorship Issues
------------------------------------------------------------

* The ACLU - http://www.aclu.org
* Center for Democracy and Technology (CDT) - http://www.cdt.org
* Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) - http://www.eff.org
* Electronic Privacy Information Center (EPIC) - http://www.epic.org
* Voters Telecommunications Watch (VTW) - http://www.vtw.org

========================================================================




the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 12:46:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@catherine.renaissoft.com
Subject: Technical Support Job (fwd)
Message-Id: <199606081946.MAA03022@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 2090

For anyone in the San Francisco area who's interested...

Technical Support Job


IGC, the preeminent on-line service for activists and non-profits,
seeks full-time employees to join our growing technical support
team. Technical support staff troubleshoot problems via phone and
email, develop support resources and work with technical staff
on research and development projects.

Qualified candidates will show a demonstrated commitment to
IGC's goals. S/he must possess the following:

* telecommunications experience via modem dial-up, SLIP and PPP
* familiarity with the Internet
* working knowledge of Unix
* thorough understanding of Mac and/or PC operating systems
* excellent verbal and written communication skills
* ability to multitask, prioritize and complete projects ontime
* friendly and patient phone manner

The Institute for Global Communications is a full service
Internet provider. We operate five computer networks (PeaceNet,
EcoNet, ConflictNet, LaborNet, and WomensNet), serving over
11,000 subscribers nationally. We are committed to providing
alternative sources of non-commercial information on the Internet
and using telecommunications technology to further progressive
movements for social change.

Salary range: $24,000 to $27,000 plus generous benefits package.

The position is onsite at our offices in San Franciso. Non-local
applicants should specify ability to relocate.

Send resume and cover letter to: Support Hiring Committee, IGC,
PO BOX 29904 SF, CA, 94129-0904. Email to supporthire@igc.apc.org

No phone calls. Resumes without cover letters will not be
acknowledged or considered.

***IGC strongly encourages applicants of all ethnicities, faiths,
orientations, and genders.***

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 15:05:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@catherine.renaissoft.com
Subject: Tantric Instructional items
Message-Id: <199606082205.PAA03177@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 569

A catalog of Tantric instructional items has been added to our
archives, courtesy of Coyote Sings. To get a copy of the online
catalog, send e-mail to

femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com

with the subject

archive send resources/tantra

and nothing in the body.

Happy reading. :)

Dee-Ann

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 19:54:01 -0400
From: tiresius@magnet.ca (Tiresius)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Manual
Message-Id: <9606082354.AA14223@python.magnet.ca
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hello everyone,
I just retrieved the training manual from the archive and was
surprised that it was written by a male slave. I would have thought that it
would have been written by a Woman instead.
Do the Women here generally agree with the manual, or what are their
own opinions of it?
Best wishes,
Tiresius@Magnet.ca

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 20:40:07 -0400
From: RicRalph@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Fwd: FW: Virus alert
Message-ID: <960608204007_322433521@emout16.mail.aol.com

I just received this and wanted to pass it along.

Ralph
---------------------
Forwarded message:
From: zhi@cais.cais.com (Zhi)
To: deb@cais.com
Date: 96-06-06 16:27:43 EDT

6-6-96

Dear NMIA Viewer,

One of our participants, Christian Phancao, was kind to share the following
alert with us. DO NOT READ any email you get that has "GOOD TIMES" in the
subject line. But please read the entire message!

Take care,

Zhi



ATTENTION ALL Desktop USERS


There is a computer virus that is being sent across the Internet. If
you receive an email message with the subject line "Good Times", DO
NOT
read the message, DELETE it immediately. Please read the messages
below. Some miscreant is sending email under the title "Good Times"
nationwide, if you get anything like this, DON'T DOWN LOAD THE FILE!
It has a virus that rewrites your hard drive, obliterating anything on
it.
Please be careful and forward this mail to anyone you care about.

WARNING!!!!!!! INTERNET VIRUS


The FCC released a warning last Wednesday concerning a matter of major
importance to any regular user of the Internet. Apparently a new
computer
virus has been engineered by a user of AMERICA ON LINE that is
unparalleled in its destructive capability. Other more well-known
viruses
such as "Stoned", "Airwolf" and "Michaelangelo" pale in comparison to
the
prospects of this newest creation by a warped mentality. What makes
this
virus so terrifying, said the FCC, is the fact that no program needs
to be
exchanged for a new computer to be infected. It can be spread through
the
existing email systems of the Internet.

Once a Computer is infected, one of several things can happen. If
the computer contains a hard drive, that will most likely be
destroyed. If
the program is not stopped, the computer's processor will be placed in
an
nth-complexity infinite binary loop -which can severely damage the
processor if left running that way too long.

Unfortunately, most novice computer users will not realize what is
happening until it is far too late. Luckily, there is one sure means of

detecting
what is now known as the "Good Times" virus. It always travels to new
computers the same way in a text email message with the subject line
reading
"Good Times". Avoiding infection is easy once the file has been
received
simply by NOT READING IT! The act of loading the file into the mail
server's
ASCII buffer causes the "Good Times" mainline program to initialize and

execute. The program is highly intelligent- it will send copies of
itself
to
everyone whose email address is contained in a receive-mail file or a
sent-mail file, if it can find one. It will then proceed to trash the
computer it is running on.

The bottom line is: - if you receive a file with the subject line
"Good
Times", delete it immediately! Do not read it" Rest assured that
whoever's name was on the "From" line was surely struck by the virus.
Warn
your friends and local system users of this newest threat to the
Internet!
It
could save them a lot of time and money.


DO NOT DOWNLOAD ANY FILE NAMED PKZIP300 REGARDLESS OF THE
EXTENSION!!

A NEW Trojan Horse Virus has emerged on the internet with the name
PKZIP300.ZIP, so named as to give the impression that this file is a
new
version of the PKZIP software used to "ZIP" (compress) files.

DO NOT DOWNLOAD this file under any circumstances!!! If you install or
expand this file, the virus WILL wipe your hard disk clean and
affect
modems at 14.4 and higher. This is an extremely destructive virus and
there
is NOT yet a way of cleaning up this one.

REPEAT: DO NOT DOWNLOAD ANY FILE NAMED PKZIP300 REGARDLESS OF
THE EXTENSION.

READING CUSC

-


Zhi Hamby-Nye, President
Real Trends, Inc.
Managing information for:
NMIA - http://www.cais.com/NMIA/HomePage.html
OSS - http://www.oss.net/oss
OPS - http://www.cais.com/zhi/OPSHomePage.html
NIP - http://www.oss.net/oss/nip
GRIP and the 749th TBA

Remember: Never ever take a "No" from someone who is not empowered to give
you a "Yes" in the first place.



the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 20:37:56 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Manual
Message-ID: <31BA4714.66D5@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

why do you think it would have been written by a woman?
patricia


Tiresius wrote:

Hello everyone,
I just retrieved the training manual from the archive and was
surprised that it was written by a male slave. I would have thought that it
would have been written by a Woman instead.
Do the Women here generally agree with the manual, or what are their
own opinions of it?
Best wishes,
Tiresius@Magnet.ca

___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 02:47:18 +0100
From: "Christine & David Stevenson"
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Manual
Message-Id: <199606090243.CAA07799@mail.telepac.pt
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

I think you will find they are often written by chaps. It is us
guys who like to tell women what we want them to do with us.

Regards, David Stevenson.

Date: Sat, 8 June 1996 19:54:01 -0400
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
From: tiresius@magnet.ca (Tiresius)
Subject: Manual
Reply-to: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com

Hello everyone,
I just retrieved the training manual from the archive and was
surprised that it was written by a male slave. I would have thought that it
would have been written by a Woman instead.
Do the Women here generally agree with the manual, or what are their
own opinions of it?
Best wishes,
Tiresius@Magnet.ca
Christine & David Stevenson. Authors of the best selling manuals
Largo Do Sandre 8 'Prickteasing.'
2500 Caldas da Rainha 'Fem Dom Manual part 1 & 2.'
Portugal 'Games People Play'

Tel/Fax +351-62-23891 Erotic fiction list available.

Email. New!! 'FEM-DOM TRAINING PROGRAM'
cstevenson@mail.telepac.pt runs on all IBM PC's. Advises on
how best to train your husband/slave.

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 19:01:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: FW: Virus alert
Message-Id: <199606090201.TAA03290@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 866

RicRalph@aol.com wrote:

I just received this and wanted to pass it along.

Ralph
---------------------
Forwarded message:
From: zhi@cais.cais.com (Zhi)
To: deb@cais.com
Date: 96-06-06 16:27:43 EDT

6-6-96

Dear NMIA Viewer,

One of our participants, Christian Phancao, was kind to share the following
alert with us. DO NOT READ any email you get that has "GOOD TIMES" in the
subject line. But please read the entire message!

The Good Times virus is a hoax that's been going around for years.
You cannot get a computer virus from reading e-mail.

Dee-Ann

the subject "help".

--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #98
***********************************************

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Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 18:38:53 -0700
From: femsupremacy-digest-request@renaissoft.com
Message-Id: <199606100138.SAA07405@davinci.renaissoft.com
Subject: femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 #99
X-Loop: femsupremacy-digest@renaissoft.com
X-Mailing-List:
Precedence: list
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/digest; boundary="----------------------------"
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------------------------------

Content-Type: text/plain

femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 99

Today's Topics:
Re: Fwd: FW: Virus alert
Re: Fwd: FW: Virus alert
Re: FW: Virus alert
Re: Unsubscribe
I want an apology!
I hope this works
Re: Bad press (was Police)
Re: Policeforce.
Information request
Re: I want an apology!
Kids on the net
Re: Information request
Re: Information request
Re: I hope this works
Re: I hope this works
Re: I hope this works
Re: Information request
Re: Fwd: FW: Virus alert
Re: Bad press (was Police)
Re: Information request
Re: Fwd: FW: Virus alert

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 22:12:06 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: FW: Virus alert
Message-ID: <31BA5D26.2BF8@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

You can only get a computer virus through and .exe file...
when you download something and execute it...thats when the trouble
happens.
patricia


Dee-Ann LeBlanc wrote:

RicRalph@aol.com wrote:

I just received this and wanted to pass it along.

Ralph
---------------------
Forwarded message:
From: zhi@cais.cais.com (Zhi)
To: deb@cais.com
Date: 96-06-06 16:27:43 EDT

6-6-96

Dear NMIA Viewer,

One of our participants, Christian Phancao, was kind to share the following
alert with us. DO NOT READ any email you get that has "GOOD TIMES" in the
subject line. But please read the entire message!

The Good Times virus is a hoax that's been going around for years.
You cannot get a computer virus from reading e-mail.

Dee-Ann

___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 08 Jun 1996 22:13:58 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: FW: Virus alert
Message-ID: <31BA5D96.7437@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

to be safe....get MacAfee net virus protection system.
patricia


Dee-Ann LeBlanc wrote:

RicRalph@aol.com wrote:

I just received this and wanted to pass it along.

Ralph
---------------------
Forwarded message:
From: zhi@cais.cais.com (Zhi)
To: deb@cais.com
Date: 96-06-06 16:27:43 EDT

6-6-96

Dear NMIA Viewer,

One of our participants, Christian Phancao, was kind to share the following
alert with us. DO NOT READ any email you get that has "GOOD TIMES" in the
subject line. But please read the entire message!

The Good Times virus is a hoax that's been going around for years.
You cannot get a computer virus from reading e-mail.

Dee-Ann

___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Jun 1996 23:41:08 -0400
From: RicRalph@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: FW: Virus alert
Message-ID: <960608234106_213429870@emout10.mail.aol.com

Dee Ann wrote:
The Good Times virus is a hoax that's been going around for years. You
cannot get a computer virus from reading e-mail.

Patricia wrote:
You can only get a conputer virus trhough and .exe file... when you download
something and execute it... thats when the trouble happens.

Thanks to both of you for your feedback. I'm still fairly new at this e-mail
and internet stuff-- so I don't know what to take seriously (as you can
probably tell from the few times I have participated in this forum). The
virus alert spooked me and you have helped set me straight. Thanks again.

Ralph

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 17:50:11 -0400
From: Janice1223@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Unsubscribe
Message-ID: <960609175010_213769239@emout16.mail.aol.com

UNSUBSCRIBE

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 09:48:27 +1200
From: Tracey
To: femsupremacy-digest@renaissoft.com (Non Receipt Notification Requested)
Subject: I want an apology!
Message-ID: <3320480910061996/A00985/DALEK/11A652701300*@MHS
Content-Identifier: 11A652701300


Peter

Hey Peter, what the fuck are you trying to say here? I am simply putting my
opinion onto this list about one, read this again Petey, ONE topic, I am
offended that you can say that I do not have an open mind.

A rather pissed off Tracey and she is not scared to swear

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 18:24:39 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: I hope this works
Message-ID: <31BB7957.990@tiac.net
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------24D823264738"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--------------24D823264738
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I never see pictures here...but this is the funniest cartoons and I
wanted to share it with all of you...hope it works
patricia

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NNCzYK0Ineh3iuyJQt9kozOaUNCIkyR6H/Lno0pqc+rFHWWHjJcZk8lIbf/1NJxWnAeqQIN1
pElqhHzUp4Ipc0b6piy6iASGlQFJYE9apt94MSLaO1gKntBZ/oh++jATJ4SqslMwOWaGhnvo
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QBqrs2m3PtSGhCErWSS3fhuQOZYpXPQ30vcKjvpieaqnPKZyjTO5g9u1DFAAAAA7
--------------24D823264738--

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 16:23:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Bad press (was Police)
Message-Id: <199606092323.QAA04022@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1427

Jet wrote:

The same with policemen... The problem is: bad news sells papers,
good news does not. It's rather like seeing an accident and the
morbidly curious are right there looking over the paramedics shoulders.
Tragedy draws people...morbidness attracts them like flies. People feel
they have the right to know, that's why shows such as Hardcopy and
magazines such as People thrive...

I remember seeing something on the news once about a newspaper that
_only_ carries good news. Does anyone know anything about this, and
if it's still running? I suspect if hundreds of thousands of people
subscribed to such a newspaper, that would send a signal to the
general media of the most persuasive form: good news does sell.
Sales is often what it's about, right?

I do see positive features on the news and in newspapers. The problem
is that they're far, far outweighed by the nasty stuff.

And, remember, shows like 60 Minutes aren't "News" no matter what they
portray themselves to be. They're a "news magazine," they're not a
news show. They're some of the biggest folks who are into slanting
what they show us.

Dee-Ann

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 16:27:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: magnus.thelander@mailbox.swipnet.se
Subject: Re: Policeforce.
Message-Id: <199606092329.QAA04042@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 904

Magnus Thelander wrote:

I really think you're exaggerating now. Everybody breaks minor laws.
Most of the time we're not even aware of it.

I'm not sure I agree that Lawless's statement about law enforcement
people feeling a bit outcast is fully an exaggeration. Did you know
that the highest suicide rate among professionals is among dentists?
A high percentage of people are afraid of dentists, and this can often
spread into weird nervousness outside of the office. I can easily see
how law enforcement folks can run into the same problem. Some folks
can act a bit strange around such "authority figures."

Dee-Ann

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 19:37:02 -0400
From: Dianaporm@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Information request
Message-ID: <960609193700_131325784@emout13.mail.aol.com

i am dianapor a male slave to Mistress of Torment. i am commanded by my
Mistress to obtain information about Female Supremacy organizations
and how my Mistress can join them. i bow deeply before the Matriarchs
of the list and beg them to help me in my duty to the Womyn who rules
me. respectfully submitted, dianapor on behalf of Mistress of Torment

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 20:03:19 -0500
From: kriv@interlog.com (peter)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: I want an apology!
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

What I was trying to say is that I suggest that you (Tracey) should keep an
open mind about the role of the media, even though I realize this may be
difficult because someone may have criticized some policy you of which you
have advised your government.
I didn't say you did not have an open mind. I said you do not have an open
mind about the media.
I feel there is no need to apologize. After all, I am simply putting my
opinion onto this list about one, read this again Tracey, ONE topic.
Peter
P.S. Thank you for calling me Petey. I have always been called this as a
term of endearment from special people. And I think you're special.





Peter

Hey Peter, what the fuck are you trying to say here? I am simply putting my
opinion onto this list about one, read this again Petey, ONE topic, I am
offended that you can say that I do not have an open mind.

A rather pissed off Tracey and she is not scared to swear

___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".


the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 17:10:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Kids on the net
Message-Id: <199606100010.RAA04156@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 2089

mark wrote:

Very astute Ms. Patricia..... Did you ever notice when you read an
artical against the internet, it is about "child porn" or other mis-uses of
the internet. As to say "You don't want to controll the internet?, then you
must advocate child pornography"......

I was watching a special the other day on how some schools and parents
are using the net for educational purposes. It was very positive.

A high school librarian talked about how they incorporated the
Internet into their school's library. They have 1 Internet-connected
machine. It's in a high traffic area, so library staff are always
walking by. And, it's in general plain view, so if a crowd of kids
gathers around the machine, they know to go over and look. They said
they've had no problems with the kids looking up any kind of porn.

A mother talked about how she deals with having an Internet connection
at home. The computer with the modem is in the kitchen, once again a
high traffic area. She also makes sure her kids know that no matter
what they run across, they can come talk to her about it and she won't
freak out. She said she doesn't know where all of the infamous
Internet porn is, because she's never seen it. She rightly pointed
out that you have to go looking specifically for it, and said as
yet her kids haven't shown an interest. She said that her daughter
has other teen penpals online, and once one of them started sounding a
little odd, talking about seeing someone masturbating or something.
She and her daughter decided that this person may not really be a
teenager, and so her daughter simply stopped writing back and forth
with the person because she herself was uncomfortable. Problem
solved.

These are some great examples of how to deal with the net where kids
are involved.

Dee-Ann

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 17:52:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Information request
Message-Id: <199606100052.RAA04216@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1088

Dianaporm@aol.com wrote:

i am dianapor a male slave to Mistress of Torment. i am commanded by my
Mistress to obtain information about Female Supremacy organizations
and how my Mistress can join them. i bow deeply before the Matriarchs
of the list and beg them to help me in my duty to the Womyn who rules
me. respectfully submitted, dianapor on behalf of Mistress of Torment

There is information in the archives pertaining to Femsupremacy
organizations. These are the orb archive, and the smc-ulc archive.
(If anyone has information to add to the Femsuprem orgs archives,
please let me know.)

To get everything in these two archives, write to

femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com

with the subject

archive

and in the body

send orb/*
send smc-ulc/*

It's only about 10-12 documents.

Dee-Ann

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 20:57:16 -0400
From: Dianaporm@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Information request
Message-ID: <960609205714_131372315@emout18.mail.aol.com

Ms. LeBlanc:

Thank You, Ma'am. May i ask if You are a
Mistress?
dianapor slave to Mistress of Torment

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 18:05:00 -0700
From: Jet
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: I hope this works
Message-ID: <31BB74BC.7398@nwlink.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Noble wrote:

I never see pictures here...but this is the funniest cartoons and I
wanted to share it with all of you...hope it works
patricia

---------------------------------------------------------------

It worked...I love the cartoon, Patricia.

I would be nice to see more pictures on this newsgroup. Where did
you find that cartoon anyway?

Jet

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 21:04:08 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: I hope this works
Message-ID: <31BB9EB8.444B@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

A sub mail answering my ad, he wanted to make a good first
impression...he did.
patricia


Jet wrote:

Noble wrote:

I never see pictures here...but this is the funniest cartoons and I
wanted to share it with all of you...hope it works
patricia

---------------------------------------------------------------

It worked...I love the cartoon, Patricia.

I would be nice to see more pictures on this newsgroup. Where did
you find that cartoon anyway?

Jet

___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 18:08:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: I hope this works
Message-Id: <199606100108.SAA04263@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 550

Jet wrote:

I would be nice to see more pictures on this newsgroup. Where did
you find that cartoon anyway?

Woah, please no. :) Picture files are huge. Please don't post
pictures to this mailing list without clearing them with me first.

Dee-Ann
List Administrator

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 18:10:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Information request
Message-Id: <199606100110.SAA04273@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 394

Dianaporm@aol.com wrote:

Thank You, Ma'am. May i ask if You are a
Mistress?

I do own a few fellows.

Dee-Ann

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 18:12:11 -0700
From: Jet
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: FW: Virus alert
Message-ID: <31BB766B.3347@nwlink.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

But you can get a virus from downloading email or things contained in
email such as photos...

Patricia, where do you get MacAfee net virus protection systems?

Jet


to be safe....get MacAfee net virus protection system.
patricia

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 18:09:04 -0700
From: Jet
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Bad press (was Police)
Message-ID: <31BB75B0.1AFC@nwlink.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dee_Ann

I remember seeing something on the news once about a newspaper that
_only_ carries good news. Does anyone know anything about this, and
if it's still running?

Unfortunately, the paper went bankrupt... Sad, but true. They couldn't
get enough people to subscribe.

I suspect if hundreds of thousands of people
subscribed to such a newspaper, that would send a signal to the
general media of the most persuasive form: good news does sell.
Sales is often what it's about, right?

Very, very true, but people have to want it and if people don't subscribe, then it
won't make it. I hear people all the time saying
that if there WAS a newspaper that printed could news they would
subscribe... I have no idea what happened to those people. I subscribed to it,
but then they sent me the notice. I wonder if anyone else
would be willing to start another one...

I do see positive features on the news and in newspapers. The problem
is that they're far, far outweighed by the nasty stuff.

Exactly my point, bad news sells...

And, remember, shows like 60 Minutes aren't "News" no matter what they
portray themselves to be. They're a "news magazine," they're not a
news show. They're some of the biggest folks who are into slanting
what they show us.

Not surprising looking at their ratings...

Jet

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 21:18:32 -0400
From: Dianaporm@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Information request
Message-ID: <960609211831_410670228@emout19.mail.aol.com

Ms. LeBlanc:

i thought i was in the presence of a Mistress. i bow deeply before You,
Ma'am.
my Mistress would wish me to convey Her warmest greetings to You. How
should i address You, Ma'am. Mistress is now putting me through obedience
and humiliation training and She wants me to be as servile as possible.
respectfully submitted, dianapor

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 21:21:38 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: FW: Virus alert
Message-ID: <31BBA2D2.1F1B@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I downloaded it from Compuserve...where I hate to go..but they do have
good downloads.
patricia
and sorry dee ann about the cartoon...could not resist..next time I will
ask....


Jet wrote:

But you can get a virus from downloading email or things contained in
email such as photos...

Patricia, where do you get MacAfee net virus protection systems?

Jet

to be safe....get MacAfee net virus protection system.
patricia

___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".

the subject "help".

--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #99
***********************************************

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------------------------------

Content-Type: text/plain

femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 100

Today's Topics:
A nice turn
Re: I hope this works
Re: I hope this works
Re: Manual
Re: A nice turn
Peter - You're annoying me
Help
Re: Peter - You're annoying me
Re: Fwd: FW: Virus alert
Re: Peter - You're annoying me
Re: Bad press (was Police)
Re: Help
Femina Society
Re: Femina Society
Policeforce.
Re: Bad press (was Police)
Re: Fwd: FW: Virus alert
Introduction and fugue
Re: Femina Society
Re: Femina Society
«a ne fait rien
Hello, My Friends!

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 18:37:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: A nice turn
Message-Id: <199606100137.SAA08346@netcom19.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1828

Ralph wrote:

Dee Ann wrote:
The Good Times virus is a hoax that's been going around for years. You
cannot get a computer virus from reading e-mail.

Patricia wrote:
You can only get a conputer virus trhough and .exe file... when you download
something and execute it... thats when the trouble happens.

(and later some advice about Macafee Virus protection).

Thanks to both of you for your feedback. I'm still fairly new at this e-mail
and internet stuff-- so I don't know what to take seriously (as you can
probably tell from the few times I have participated in this forum). The
virus alert spooked me and you have helped set me straight. Thanks again.

Now, this was very nice development: Ralph (correctly) passed
on a virus warning, but about an old (or bogus) virus.

Two =women= then stepped forward and gently but firmly set the
situation straight and updated Ralph's (and our) knowledge.
This they did without in any way demeaning or flaming Ralph
or making their points at his expense (which male geeks might
well have).

(The implication that both Dee and Patricia are 'geeks' is
quite intentional: they are both damned good ones, as all the
evidence so far shows.)

A nice micro-illustration of the future, one hopes, and a small
slice of Doctress Neutopia's vision of the _Feminization of
Cyberspace_. :)
--
coyote sings / man and sky / amfas@netcom.com

Show up. Lighten up. Pay attention. Feel awe. Make it count.
The rest is hidden.



the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 18:45:34 -0700
From: Jet
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: I hope this works
Message-ID: <31BB7E3E.5A17@nwlink.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dee-Ann--

I would be nice to see more pictures on this newsgroup. Where did
you find that cartoon anyway?

Woah, please no. :) Picture files are huge. Please don't post
pictures to this mailing list without clearing them with me first.

No problem...

Jet

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 18:48:24 -0700
From: Jet
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: I hope this works
Message-ID: <31BB7EE8.3E3B@nwlink.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Patricia--

I bet he did! ; How do I send mail to you so I don't clutter
the group with the little things I send to you, such as this.

Jet
jet@nwlink.com

A sub mail answering my ad, he wanted to make a good first
impression...he did.
patricia


the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 18:49:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Manual
Message-Id: <199606100149.SAA09476@netcom19.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 930

Patricia wrote;

why do you think it would have been written by a woman?
patricia

Tiresius wrote:

I just retrieved the training manual from the archive and was
surprised that it was written by a male slave. I would have thought that it
would have been written by a Woman instead.

Males very often write such materials, either as ghost writing
assignments or as assigned exercises for their own formation and
very often as blatant fantasy. All have their uses.

I have such an assignment now, and should be working on it now.
rather than checking in here. ;P
I will hear about it in the morning, no doubt.

c.s.

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 22:30:47 -0700
From: Noble
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: A nice turn
Message-ID: <31BBB307.32AA@tiac.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Coyote sings:

your ending is much like the rules I have embroidered on my walls for my
life...I heed them, I will share:

Pay Attention
Follow Your Bliss
Do No Harm
Be Here Now
Take No Prisoners (they only tie you down & I don't switch) :-)

dems my rules...
patricia

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 14:35:14 +1200
From: Tracey
To: femsupremacy-digest@renaissoft.com (Non Receipt Notification Requested)
Subject: Peter - You're annoying me
Message-ID: <0408351410061996/A03315/DALEK/11A653A30700*@MHS
Content-Identifier: 11A653A30700

First Peter writes:

haven't read the full accounts; b) what was involved to get the story and
c) I don't know Tracey and anything of her dealings with the media.

Regardless, it could be anything from sloppy journalism to an attempt by
those involved to purposely distort the facts. In any event, I don't see
them as wilful bias on the part of the media.

So, I'll keep an open mind. I wish Tracey would do the same.
Peter

And then good ol' Peter writes:

open mind about the role of the media, even though I realize this may be
difficult because someone may have criticized some policy you of which you
have advised your government.
I didn't say you did not have an open mind. I said you do not have an open
mind about the media.
I feel there is no need to apologize. After all, I am simply putting my
opinion onto this list about one, read this again Tracey, ONE topic.
Peter

In the first post Peter, you tell me that you don't have all the information,
you don't know me, nor how we got to this point, so how the heck did you get
the idea that I am not open minded about this discussion?

You, Peter, sound like a reporter. Because I mention that I have exposure to
how Government policy is put into place, you automatically jump to the
conclusion that I advise Government, typical. I don't know where you got this
idea from, I merely mentioned how my awareness became when it comes to the
unbias of the media. I also used other issues to point out the problem, but
again Peter, you bring up the Government issue.

I have an open mind, if it was any more open, I'd have a problem with wind
blowing through. I quest for the truth and I like to view both sides of the
story being covered. If the media are doing such a wonderful job in covering
stories and issues, why is it that the general public's opinion swings when the
media has so much influence? Give the public enough advertising of someone
suspected of a crime and we will believe that person is guilty regardless if
that person is not.

Peter also wrote:

mind about the media.

Pardon? The post I was replying to, written by Peter stated:


I dunno Peter, but you prove my point simply by posting. I still want and
deserve an apology.

Tracey

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 23:01:45 -0400
From: JYogi@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Help
Message-ID: <960609230144_213939643@emout16.mail.aol.com

Hi I am probably not suppose to ask this here and if I am not please ignore
this message and forgive me. I am new to the scene attractive 23 yr old swm
sub I am from Michigan and looking for a Mistress with really no luck I am
able to find Mistress from everywhere else but here. Could someone please
tell me where to look or recomend me to someone. Thanks JYogi@aol.com

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 23:25:18 -0500
From: kriv@interlog.com (peter)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Peter - You're annoying me
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Tracey:
You can wait until hell freezes over before I apologize.
I posted an honest comment and you attacked me.
If you can't take criticism and honest debate and respond in a thoughtful
manner, that's your problem.
Enough said. I'll stop this, if you will. In fact, I'll stop this even if
you won't.
Peter (aka Petey)

First Peter writes:

haven't read the full accounts; b) what was involved to get the story and
c) I don't know Tracey and anything of her dealings with the media.

Regardless, it could be anything from sloppy journalism to an attempt by
those involved to purposely distort the facts. In any event, I don't see
them as wilful bias on the part of the media.

So, I'll keep an open mind. I wish Tracey would do the same.
Peter

And then good ol' Peter writes:

open mind about the role of the media, even though I realize this may be
difficult because someone may have criticized some policy you of which you
have advised your government.
I didn't say you did not have an open mind. I said you do not have an open
mind about the media.
I feel there is no need to apologize. After all, I am simply putting my
opinion onto this list about one, read this again Tracey, ONE topic.
Peter

In the first post Peter, you tell me that you don't have all the information,
you don't know me, nor how we got to this point, so how the heck did you get
the idea that I am not open minded about this discussion?

You, Peter, sound like a reporter. Because I mention that I have exposure to
how Government policy is put into place, you automatically jump to the
conclusion that I advise Government, typical. I don't know where you got this
idea from, I merely mentioned how my awareness became when it comes to the
unbias of the media. I also used other issues to point out the problem, but
again Peter, you bring up the Government issue.

I have an open mind, if it was any more open, I'd have a problem with wind
blowing through. I quest for the truth and I like to view both sides of the
story being covered. If the media are doing such a wonderful job in covering
stories and issues, why is it that the general public's opinion swings when the
media has so much influence? Give the public enough advertising of someone
suspected of a crime and we will believe that person is guilty regardless if
that person is not.

Peter also wrote:

mind about the media.

Pardon? The post I was replying to, written by Peter stated:


I dunno Peter, but you prove my point simply by posting. I still want and
deserve an apology.

Tracey

___________________________________________________________________


the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 23:32:43 +0500 (GMT+0500)
From: williams@bayboro.stpt.usf.edu
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: FW: Virus alert
Message-ID:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Sat, 8 Jun 1996, Noble wrote:
You can only get a computer virus through and .exe file...
when you download something and execute it...thats when the trouble
happens.

Not so true anymore. This isn't the proper forum for discussions of
virii/trojan horses, but you can get virii from non-executables. The
Concept "virus" that infects Microsoft Word documents and templates is an
example of such a virii. There are also such things as "ANSI-BOMBS"
which uses ANSI escape sequences.

FWIW: The Good Times virus is indeed a hoax that has spawned a FAQ about
it. You can do a net search for it.

The Pk Zip v3.0 trojan actually did exist. However, I have not seen
hide nor hair of it in over a year.

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 20:59:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Peter - You're annoying me
Message-Id: <199606100359.UAA04404@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 391

Tracey and peter: please take this to private e-mail if you insist on
going back and forth at each other.

Dee-Ann

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 21:09:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Bad press (was Police)
Message-Id: <199606100409.VAA04431@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1472

Jet wrote:

Unfortunately, the paper went bankrupt... Sad, but true. They couldn't
get enough people to subscribe.

That's interesting in and of itself. I've had this nasty feeling for
a long time that as much as most people protest that they like to hear
good news, they're much more likely to go out of their way to hear bad
news.

Very, very true, but people have to want it and if people don't subscribe, then it
won't make it. I hear people all the time saying
that if there WAS a newspaper that printed could news they would
subscribe... I have no idea what happened to those people. I subscribed to it,
but then they sent me the notice. I wonder if anyone else
would be willing to start another one...

What kind of good news was it? Did they track down good human
interest stories and the like?

I do see positive features on the news and in newspapers. The problem
is that they're far, far outweighed by the nasty stuff.

Exactly my point, bad news sells...

Has it always been that way? Or is it a recent phenomenon? And is it
mostly an American/North American thing, or more worldwide? Any facts
to lend to this quandry, anyone?

Dee-Ann

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 21:29:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Help
Message-Id: <199606100429.VAA04459@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 759

JYogi@aol.com wrote:

Hi I am probably not suppose to ask this here and if I am not please ignore
this message and forgive me. I am new to the scene attractive 23 yr old swm
sub I am from Michigan and looking for a Mistress with really no luck I am
able to find Mistress from everywhere else but here. Could someone please
tell me where to look or recomend me to someone. Thanks JYogi@aol.com

Try the Usenet groups alt.sex.femdom, and alt.personals.bondage.

Dee-Ann

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 01:38:09 -0400
From: Dianaporm@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Femina Society
Message-ID: <960610013808_410817462@emout14.mail.aol.com

i am a male slave to Mistress of Torment. my Mistress is interested in
knowing
if the Femina Society exists and if it is still located near Boston. my
Mistress
would appreciate any information which is available from the Matriarchs,
slaves,
or other members of this list. Respectfully submitted, dianapor

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 22:42:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Femina Society
Message-Id: <199606100542.WAA04618@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 912

Dianaporm@aol.com wrote:

i am a male slave to Mistress of Torment. my Mistress is interested in
knowing
if the Femina Society exists and if it is still located near Boston. my
Mistress
would appreciate any information which is available from the Matriarchs,
slaves,
or other members of this list. Respectfully submitted, dianapor

The Femina Society used to participate on this list, but there were a
few problems with one of their people and they finally left. Last I
heard from any of them, the woman who ran it (Ms. Deering) was leaving
and happy to be doing so. I would generally avoid the Femina Society.

Dee-Ann

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 96 07:02:19 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "Fem. suprem."
Subject: Policeforce.
Message-Id: <199606100541.HAA26875@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On Sun, 9 Jun 1996 16:27:52 -0700 (PDT), Dee-Ann LeBlanc wrote:

people feeling a bit outcast is fully an exaggeration. Did you know
that the highest suicide rate among professionals is among dentists?

I didn't know that. How does the suicide rate among dentists compare to
the suicide rate of the profession with highest rate of suicide? Do you
know?

A high percentage of people are afraid of dentists, and this can often
spread into weird nervousness outside of the office. I can easily see

Strange. I can see how someone can fear what the dentist may *do* to
you, because it may hurt, but that doesn't make the dentist an evil
person. Wouldn't the same thing apply to doctors? A lot of the stuff they
do to people hurts too.

---
Magnus Thelander
Malmo, Sweden
Hiroshima 45, Tjernobyl 86, Windows 95 ...

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 96 07:08:50 +0200
From: "Magnus Thelander"
To: "femsupremacy@renaissoft.com"
Subject: Re: Bad press (was Police)
Message-Id: <199606100541.HAA26891@mailbox.swip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On Sun, 9 Jun 1996 21:09:18 -0700 (PDT), Dee-Ann LeBlanc wrote:

Has it always been that way? Or is it a recent phenomenon? And is it
mostly an American/North American thing, or more worldwide? Any facts
to lend to this quandry, anyone?

Here in Sweden bad news in the norm in the media too. Perhaps people in
general consider good news to be normal, while they consider bad news to
be the exception.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|Magnus Thelander | Fidonet: 2:200/422.21 | Everybody knows, that the
|Drottninggatan 4A | Tel.: +46-708-535155 | best nuts come from
|212 11 Malmo | Timezone= CET + 1 | California.
|Sweden | | -Sunkist
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 07:04:00 +0100
From: "Christine & David Stevenson"
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: FW: Virus alert
Message-Id: <199606100659.GAA15058@mail.telepac.pt
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

FWIW: The Good Times virus is indeed a hoax that has spawned a FAQ about
it. You can do a net search for it.

I have a copy of the FAQ. downloaded it today. It's quite long.
Drop me a line if you want it.

David Stevenson.
David Stevenson
Largo Do Sandre 8
2500 Caldas da Rainha
Portugal

Tel/Fax +351-62-23891

Email:- cstevenson@mail.telepac.pt

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 09 Jun 1996 23:14:20 -0700
From: Brett J Wakefield
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Introduction and fugue
Message-ID: <31BBBD3C.544C@slip.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Since I'm relatively new to the service, as an introduction, I'm the male
partner in a fairly recent marriage (a year and a half) in which my
spouse and I are evolving our ideas and respective roles, for which we're
hopeful this group will prove helpful.
(And, may I say, I'm quite impressed with Ms. LeBlanc's overseeing: Thank
you, ma'am; your efforts are appreciated.)
I'd like to raise a question: Is anyone familiar with Margaret Mead's
"Sex and Temperament in New Guinea"? If I understand her thesis
correctly (no sure thing!), having examined three distinct cultures, one
male dominated, one female dominated and one with gender equality, both
former cultures tended to be warlike and aggressive, though different in
the sense that in the male dominant culture, women adorned themselves,
cared for children and tended gardens; in the female dominant tribe, the
males adorned themselves, cared for the children and tended the gardens;
while, in the third, group, characterized by equality, chores tended to
be shared.
Assuming both that my understanding is correct, and Dr. Mead's research
was accurate, this would seem to me to be of some relevance for whatever
future might evolve for us.
Like I've stated, my spouse and I are in a process of evolving our
relations.
Respectfully submitted,
Brett

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 03:09:18 -0400
From: Dianaporm@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Femina Society
Message-ID: <960610030917_410845675@emout19.mail.aol.com

Ms. LeBlank:

Thank You for Your help, Ma'am. BTW, i am a rookie slave and i am just
learning the ropes. i need a lot of reinforcement in Female Supremacy.
i don't wish to trouble You but are there rituals or exercises i could do
or a mantra to stay when i feel myself slipping away from the straight
and narrow? i am now serving my Mistress in cyberspace but i will
be going South in the Fall to serve Her RT. my problem is that i forget
my place during the times when i am not in contact with my Mistress
and my feeling of subservience begins to weaken. Also are there
conventions which i should follow on the list ... should i address all
Women as Ma'am, or something like that. Any advice would help me
to serve my Mistress better and also the Female Supremacy movement.
Respectfully submitted, dianapor

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 03:35:17 -0400
From: Dianaporm@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Femina Society
Message-ID: <960610033516_323481784@emout08.mail.aol.com

i beg Your pardon, Ms LeBlanc. No offense intended.
dianapor

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 05:10:43 -0700
From: rem
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: «a ne fait rien
Message-ID: <31BC10C3.30A3@interlog.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Editors at my newspaper have a fetish for removing commentary from news
reports.

Now there is a story! Ring Black. Hold on... Is this true? Does this
source know what he's saying? can anyone verify this? I have
submissions that will have them at the ends of their hair.

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 03:56:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barry Emerson Wright
To: femsupremacy
Subject: Hello, My Friends!
Message-Id:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Friends,

Just got home from Russia tonight and found a ton of mail waiting
for me. Most of it was from FemSupremacy, and I read as much as I
could. I found it incredible that there was such a heavy exchange, and
one of my few regrets about being abroad was that I could not participate.
I do not wish to bore you with a travelogue, so I can only say
that my chance to experience Soviet/Russian history and culture was every
bit as educational and exciting as I had hoped. Took me twenty five years
but I finally made it happen! Of course, it would not have been possible
without my friends.
Sadly, Russia is an incredibly male chauvinistic society. Coyote
sings pointed this out in a previous letter and things have not changed.
Only the educated women (Zarina has a Ph.D. in Literature) resist this
notion, but the young generation is coming along. My friends worked out
a deal for a guide when they were not available; a 20 year old college
student who showed me around in return for the chance to practice her
conversational English. She was quiet at first but when I started
expressing Feminist views she opened up and even introduced me to some of
her friends. That's as far as I got, so I don't know of any FemSupremacy
advocates.
A few personal notes: on my way over my aircraft flew directly
over, home of our own. Did you feel the
positive vibrations, Brother? Laura, I didn't think my respect for you
could be any greater, but when I read some of the messages you posted
about your adolescence I was amazed that you could have come so far after
such a tough road. Keep poundin' the bricks, Angel, as you are an
example for our Community. I am far from the only one to be inspired by
you, but I will do my best to return the favor to us all.
Missed you all in my absence, and will soon be gone for another
ten days. The reason for this will be in my next posting.

Peace,

Barry

the subject "help".

--------------------------------
End of femsupremacy-digest Digest V96 Issue #100
************************************************

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------------------------------

Content-Type: text/plain

femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 101

Today's Topics:
WELCOME BACK!!!!!!!!!!! (fwd)
Re: Fwd: FW: Virus alert
Re: Manual
Re: Fwd: FW: Virus alert
Re: Bad press
Re: A nice turn
Unsubscribing (was Re: A nice turn)
Ms. Charlene Deering
contacting Charlene Deering: -- I think she is still addvertising in the
Re: Policeforce, etc (long)
Re: Unsubscribing
Re: Unsubscribing
Re: A nice turn
Re: Ms. Charlene Deering
Re: Hello, My Friends!
Re: Bad press
Re: A nice turn
Question
Re: Ms. Charlene Deering

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 04:13:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barry Emerson Wright
To: femsupremacy
Cc: "Jennifer B. Whitbeck"
Subject: WELCOME BACK!!!!!!!!!!! (fwd)
Message-Id:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Friends,

It is very difficult for me to speak of personal affairs,
especially when they involve another. But I am slowly "coming out of the
closet", so to speak, and revealing my sub side. Jennifer and I have
been corresponding by computer and phone for several months and have
become very close. On Wednesday I will fly to Philadelphia for our first
physical meeting and my first submissive experience. We're throwin'
down; if it works out Master Strider will be collared.

Peace,

Barry

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 1996 16:26:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jennifer B Whitbeck
To: emersonw@ohsu.EDU
Subject: WELCOME BACK!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey there, my beloved sub!

I wanted to welcome you back from your travels. I think of you
often and you are the only real motivation I have found to finally crack
down on my work! See: you are good for me.
Oh well, until later...

Love,
Your Domme and Owner.

--
J.B. Whitbeck
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

"Her hair was long, her foot was light,
And her eyes were wild."

-John Keats.
"La Belle Dame sans Merci. A Ballad"

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 04:29:59 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: FW: Virus alert
Message-Id: <199606101129.EAA06935@dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com

You wrote:

I just received this and wanted to pass it along.

Ralph
DO NOT READ any email you get that has "GOOD TIMES" in the
subject line.

This is a hoax. There is no Good Times virus. You can't get a virus
from reading email.
--
Laura Goodwin

" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."

(William Shakespeare)

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 07:51:18 -0400
From: tiresius@magnet.ca (Tiresius)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Manual
Message-Id: <9606101151.AA15069@python.magnet.ca
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

why do you think it would have been written by a woman?
patricia


I think you will find they are often written by chaps. It is us
guys who like to tell women what we want them to do with us.

Regards, David Stevenson.



Hello to All;
I concur with David Stevenson's observation, that many of these
manuals on how to train men, are written by men themselves. As to why I
think it "ought" to be written by a woman, is simply because it is "Her
Manual" on how to train men. Otherwise, it is the equivalent of a domestic
maid, "telling" the employer how the job will be done, the benefits of the
job, and repercussions of a job not well done.
Perhaps women in general find no need for a manual per se, which is
fine, since everyone has their own techniques. However, I do believe, that
there IS a place for such a manual, perhaps as a "collection of works" by
various women on the techniques they employ, and what works best in their
particular situation.
In general, I find men write more of a "fantasy utopia" that they
imagine, while women tend to be more pratical and realistic. While I find
no gross faults in the manual that is available, I thought I would post my
comments and perhaps start a discussion on the topic.
(Who knows, perhaps the discussion itself might be collated together
as a "commentary manual?")
Best wishes to all,
Tiresius
Tiresius@Magnet.ca

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 08:45:54 -0500
From: sorceress@CYBEROTI.COM
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: FW: Virus alert
Message-ID:

FE You can only get a computer virus through and .exe file...
FE when you download something and execute it...thats when the trouble
FE happens.

FENot so true anymore. This isn't the proper forum for discussions of
FEvirii/trojan horses, but you can get virii from non-executables. The
FEConcept "virus" that infects Microsoft Word documents and templates is an
FEexample of such a virii. There are also such things as "ANSI-BOMBS"
FEwhich uses ANSI escape sequences.

FEThe Pk Zip v3.0 trojan actually did exist. However, I have not seen
FEhide nor hair of it in over a year.

I use Microsoft Word, and found, during a clean-up a .doc file
I'd never seen before. It was a "love letter", and it was
very "dark," a letter of revenge to a lost love. AND it was
signed "Troy." I have the feeling that if I had caleld the
document up in the normal way, I might have had a problem.
Since I discovered it lurking in the system, I destroyed it
immediately. I suspect it was a virus.
CybErotiComm Online

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 07:53:24 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Bad press
Message-Id: <199606101453.HAA25062@dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com

You wrote:

Jet wrote:

The same with policemen... The problem is: bad news sells papers,
good news does not.

I remember seeing something on the news once about a newspaper that
_only_ carries good news.

Remember: what's bad news to some people is good news to others. How
to choose stories for such a paper?
--
Laura Goodwin

" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."

(William Shakespeare)

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 08:22:18 +0000
From: Mike Kelley
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: A nice turn
Message-ID: <31BBDB3A.7205@accutek.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Coyote Sings wrote:

Patricia wrote:
You can only get a conputer virus trhough and .exe file... when you download
something and execute it... thats when the trouble happens.

At the risk of offending here (I've unsubscribed due to
my hectic life, but I guess the listmaster has the same
problem and hasn't gotten around to it yet), let me add
that executing an .EXE is NOT the only way to get a
virus. The well-known Normal.DOT virus is a
particularly nasty example of a file other than an .EXE
that can cause problems (this is a Word document virus
containing macro commands that will reformat your hard
drive, among other things, when you start up Word and
it executes the macros inside).

So, in a sense, you CAN get a virus simply by "reading"
something -- depending upon the software you are using.
I don't overly panic about these things, but it's good
to be informed (it's recommended you make your
NORMAL.DOT read-only to protect against this virus, for
those of you using Word).

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 12:07:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Unsubscribing (was Re: A nice turn)
Message-Id: <199606101907.MAA05214@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 789

Mike Kelley wrote:

(I've unsubscribed due to
my hectic life, but I guess the listmaster has the same
problem and hasn't gotten around to it yet)

I don't unsubscribe folks by hand, so if you posted your unsubscribe
to the list, you're not going to be removed. :) To unsubscribe from
the list, write to

femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com

with the subject

unsubscribe

and nothing in the body. If this doesn't work for some reason, write
to the address below for help with being removed.

Dee-Ann

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 14:37:58 -0400
From: Dianaporm@aol.com
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Ms. Charlene Deering
Message-ID: <960610143757_131866865@emout10.mail.aol.com

Would anybody know what Ms. Charlene Deering Mother Foundress of the
Femina Society is doing now and how She can be reached?
besogner de la Maitresse du Torment

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 14:20:22 CDT
From: bodie167@houston.email.net
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: contacting Charlene Deering: -- I think she is still addvertising in the
Message-Id: <9606101420.S762942599@houston.email.net

classifieds of DOMINANT DOMAIN, CAPITULATION, DOMINANT MYSTIQUE,etc.

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 12:37:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chase Vogelsberg
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com (FemSupremacy)
Subject: Re: Policeforce, etc (long)
Message-Id: <199606101937.MAA01127@eskimo.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Magnus wrote:
Seems to me that that's the problem then. There's no doubt a need for a
certain amount of violence in a certain situation. That's acceptable. It's
not acceptable not to be able to determine when that line has been
crossed. If there is an attitude of acceptance of this, something has to
be done about that, or it will never change.

Does society really benifit from policeofficers suffering from Mad cop
decease (shamelessly stolen from David Letterman). I.e. policeofficers who
think they have a carte blanche to use force?

Agreed on all points here, about what is and isn't acceptable, and about
society not getting any benefits out of such behavior and attitudes. Sadly,
it seems to be the way it's always been, and unlikely to change soon, so
far as men's mentalities when having such powers and authority.

I really think you're exaggerating now. Everybody breaks minor laws.
Most of the time we're not even aware of it.

Heh - you're exactly right on part of this : "Everybody breaks minor laws."
Thing is, most people don't agree at all about what constitutes a minor law.
Lots of folks over here think cheating on your income tax is a minor crime,
if a crime at all. Not coming to a complete stop at a stop sign at three in
the morning when there's no traffic. Having a few beers and then driving,
even when you may be ever-so-slightly over the legal blood alcohol content.
You can find some people who'd think that any one of the above wasn't just a
minor crime, and others who do.

Just the same - people who might chat amiably with one another about doing
any or all of the above, do -not- want a police officer listening, or an IRS
(Internal Revenue Service - them what insist on taking income taxes here)
agent eavesdropping as they talk about saving money on their taxes. They
get nervous, not knowing whether the particular authority is going to chuckle
along with everone else, or decide to bust their chops. And knowing that the
cop or irs agent -can- do so, if they want.

-of the guests might just decide to start indulging in some proscribed sub-
-stance and perhaps get busted. Too many kids who spit or yell profanity as

This is not breaking a minor law in my opinion. Using controlled
substances is a major crime.

See, now here's an example of major differences of opinion, about what does
or does not consititute a major crime. Alcohol and nicotine are most cer-
tainly mind and body altering substances, but they're legal here, although
alcohol wasn't for a number of years. Marijuana/cannabis -used- to be legal,
but isn't anymore - despite a lot of medical, legal, and scientific people's
stated opinion that it is less dangerous and causes less damage than alcohol.
Biggest difference? Tobacco and alcohol are big business, capable of lobbying
the government, and in fact supporting laws to keep other substances illegal,
lest these industries lose money as people use other drugs of choice.

There's also the argument that the government doesn't, shouldn't, have the
right to tell a person what they can or can't do with their own mind and/or
body. Making it illegal to drive or otherwise endanger other while under
the influence would be one thing, and there are in fact numerous laws that
do so. But this "Big Brother Knows Best" mentality is instead incredibly
pervasive here in the USA, with regard to substances, with regard to what
knowing, consenting adults do with one another, with regard to whether or
not someone has the right to terminate their own life under various circum-
stances.

So, despite a Marine Corps inculcated distaste for most of those illegal
substances, I don't agree that they should be illegal, or that using them is
a major breaking of the law.

-police kicking suspects, and why in big cities you can watch police casually
-intimidating or harassing certain types of people, simply because they can.

Intimidating and harassing known criminals to a certain extent is a
part of their job. It will reduce the ability of the criminals to go about
their foul business. Isn't that what we want the police to do? Perhaps you
meant something else, when you said 'certain types of people'?

Yep, I meant something else when I said 'certain types of people', as they
have a tendency to be harassing people who aren't known criminals. Instead,
they harass ethnic minorities, the lower class, people who look like they
can't possibly afford a lawyer to protest such mistreatment. Hispanics,
blacks, ragged looking caucasian youths in certain neighborhoods, all have
been known to be picked on by the cops, treated as suspects for no other
reason than race or appearance. It's happened to me, at times when I'm going
around dressed scruffy on foot. (Non-driver equating to non-entity, in many
eyes over here, owning/operating a car being so expected by society)

An' I'm sorry, but I personally feel that "Intimidating and harrassing" isn't
an activity the police is supposed to be involved in, certainly not without
-very- good cause. Too likely to be abusive, with non-criminal types being
harassed on general suspicion by one cop or another, or simply because of
boredom, prejudice, or dislike. Once you start allowing / encouraging such
types of behavior, it simply gets worse, huMAN nature being what it is an'
all.

Example - there was a local alternative music store down here in a place
called Ybor City - old part of town, used to be lots of art galleries, music
stores, coffee shops, and such. Now it's over a hundred bars and nightclubs,
very much a New Orleans party type of atmosphere. But, this Blue Chair Music
went out of business a few months back, for various reasons. It's owner was
something of a local political activist, which didn't endear him, his shop,
or his patrons (mostly young, hippie-ish/slacker type crowd) to city hall or
the police. The night it closed, some of these kids hung around outside,
just talking, not causing any trouble - certainly not when compared to the
Saturday night crowd of drunks and rowdies swarming all around the bars.

Nonetheless, the cops came in and told them they had to disperse, without
giving any good cause for -why- this was. Some of the group attempted to
stand up for their rights - right to peaceful assembly, right to free speech,
etc, and were told that if they wanted to discuss such things, they could be
booked and would get to discuss 'em down town at the jail/court house. So,
the crowd dispersed, because no one really wanted to spend a night in jail.
Again - no laws were broken, no disturbance had been created. It was simply
a matter of the police seeing a group they pretty much knew they could inti-
midate and get away with it. All this despite there being lots of better
things they could've been looking after, that part of town being what it was
and all. Me, I find this to be an example of male power politics and
discrimination, an' not something that should be part of their job at all.

Cordially,
Chase / Lawless

-- \_awless is : A wolf, wild at heart, with a heart of darkness.
-- Chase Vogelsberg (lawless@netcom.com / lawless@eskimo.com)
--
-- Some angels didn't have that far to fall.

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 12:39:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Unsubscribing
Message-Id: <199606101939.MAA23358@netcom2.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 481

Isn't a digest form of subscription still available?

That might have simplified things for Mike and allowed him
to continue to subscribe. He certainly seemd interested.

Whatever, good luck, Mike. :]

c.s.

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 12:53:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dee-Ann LeBlanc
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Unsubscribing
Message-Id: <199606101953.MAA05285@catherine.renaissoft.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 877

Coyote Sings wrote:

Isn't a digest form of subscription still available?

Yup, there's a digest. A digest form of a list is where you get 1
post containing (in the case of this list) 10 posts inside it. It's a
way of helping those folks who don't want lots of little pieces of
mail all at once.

To subscribe to the digest, first unsubscribe from the normal list!
Then, write to

femsupremacy-digest-request@renaissoft.com

with the subject

subscribe

and nothing in the bod.

If you don't unsubscribe from the normal list first, you'll get all of
the normal posts, plus the digests.

Dee-Ann

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 10:57:36 -0700
From: lalaura@ix.netcom.com (Laura Goodwin)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: A nice turn
Message-Id: <199606101757.KAA11690@dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com

So, in a sense, you CAN get a virus simply by "reading"
something -- depending upon the software you are using.
I don't overly panic about these things, but it's good
to be informed (it's recommended you make your
NORMAL.DOT read-only to protect against this virus, for
those of you using Word).

Well, this has been an education. I don't know how to make my
normal.dot read-only...I have Norton antivirus...is this sufficient?

--
Laura Goodwin

" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."

(William Shakespeare)

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 13:12:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Ms. Charlene Deering
Message-Id: <199606102012.NAA26457@netcom2.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1760


Would anybody know what Ms. Charlene Deering Mother Foundress of the
Femina Society is doing now and how She can be reached?
besogner de la Maitresse du Torment

dianapor wrote:

The last two addresses I had were

charlene.deering@castle.shore.net
and
infinity@mistress.com

but these are from about a year ago and are probably inactive.
You might try posting an inquiry to the alt.women.supremacy or
alt.sex.femdom newsgroups and see what happens. Lady Beclan
reads and occasionally posts in both. There was a third Femina
Society principal, Artemis, who was never online except through
her 's.

Please heed Dee's caution about the Femina Society: there was
a rumble just over a year ago, and much bad feeling, and the
Society effectively fell apart, other details unknown. you might
well be wasting Mts Torment's time by pursuing this.

My own highly personal receommendation is that you instead
investigate the SMC, which is well documented in our archives
and ably represented here by Laura Goodwin.



All that said, dianapor, welcome and good luck in your toils
on behalf of your gracious, serene and puissant Owner. :)

Pro-choice and free to discuss abortion wherever I choose, I remain
besogner de la Raptrice, & q.b.S.p., &c.,
--
coyote sings / man and sky / amfas@netcom.com

Show up. Lighten up. Pay attention. Feel awe. Make it count.
The rest is hidden.

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 13:24:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Hello, My Friends!
Message-Id: <199606102024.NAA27302@netcom2.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 316

_Dobro pol'zhalovat'_, Barry! :)

c.s.

the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 16:35:07 -0500
From: kriv@interlog.com (peter)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: Bad press
Message-Id:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

It's true that what may be good news to some, may be bad news to others.
However, I believe this paper was focussed too much. It concentrated only a
good news for everyone. Stories of nice people doing nice things. I have
only a vague recollection of this paper and don't know why it wasn't
successful. I just know that it's no longer in existence.
Peter

You wrote:

Jet wrote:

The same with policemen... The problem is: bad news sells papers,
good news does not.

I remember seeing something on the news once about a newspaper that
_only_ carries good news.

Remember: what's bad news to some people is good news to others. How
to choose stories for such a paper?
--
Laura Goodwin

" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."

(William Shakespeare)

___________________________________________________________________
Questions and comments should be sent to listmaster@renaissoft.com.
For a list and description of supported mailing list commands, send
mail to femsupremacy-request@renaissoft.com with the subject "help".


the subject "help".

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 13:41:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: amfas@netcom.com (Coyote Sings)
To: femsupremacy@renaissoft.com
Subject: Re: A nice turn
Message-Id: <199606102041.NAA28731@netcom2.netcom.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1535

Patricia wrote:

your ending [my .sig - c.s.] is much like the rules I have embroidered
on my walls for my life...I heed them, I will share:

Pay Attention
Follow Your Bliss
Do No Harm
Be Here Now
Take No Prisoners (they only tie you down & I don't switch) :-)

dems my rules...

An' dems =good= rules, too! ;]

About every 2 years I summarize what I (imagine I) have learned from life
in such a list, and try to stay with it, and use it or one line from
it as a device for meditation, rather like a mantra, and it can save a lot
of time figuring things out.

What amazes me is how =similar= our two lists are!
I like finding that kind of energy loose in the world, and watching it
work.

Here are some of the Phoenix Fire Department's
rules, which have been discovered to have universal application:

1. Pay attention all the time,
2. Everybody helps everybody else,
3. Never go beyond your air supply,
4. Never run for a moving rig,

and so on,,, :)

Pro-choice and free to discuss abortion wherever I choose, I remain
--
coyote sings / man and sky / amfas@netcom.com

Show up. Lighten up. Pay attention. Feel awe. Make it count.
The rest is hidden.



my Mistress has renamed me besogner de la Maitresse du Torment. What
does 'besogner' mean in this context, please?

besogner de la Maitresse du Torment

the subject "help".


Thank you besogner de la Raptrice ... i need a lot of reinforcing of my
habits
of obedience and servility and to be reminded that i am owned. i am trying
to be good but a male is wayward by nature and must be trained well in the
ways of Female Supremacy. besogner de la Maitresse du Torment

the subject "help".

femsupremacy-digest Digest Volume 96 : Issue 102